Real world difference between an M3 and a CSL...

[titan]

Originally Posted by AlexGTT

My CSL has Aircon, Xenons and Radio. When standard on Simpson's scales with 1/4 tank it's 1422kg's. It's now 1394kg's.

My old M3 with a decent spec. On Simpson's scales with the same fuel load was 1595kg's.

I'd say that's significant.

Good stuff, can't beat having the figures. So, CS 1422 and M3 1595. 173Kg difference, right enough thats two decent sized chaps.

Alex - what did you do to go from 1422 to 1394 out of interest ?

I read somewhere that M3 seats weight 30Kg each. So depending on your mounts there's a fair bit to be saved there.

Nathan - spot on - as always, its the driver that makes the difference...

[AlexGTT]

Originally Posted by titan

Good stuff, can't beat having the figures. So, CS 1422 and M3 1595. 173Kg difference, right enough thats two decent sized chaps.

Alex - what did you do to go from 1422 to 1394 out of interest ?

I read somewhere that M3 seats weight 30Kg each. So depending on your mounts there's a fair bit to be saved there.

Nathan - spot on - as always, its the driver that makes the difference...

Not a lot. Probably same as you?

Supersprint centre section and lightweight rear box. -20kgs
AP's all round -4kgs???
Intrax - -?????
Some stuff out of the boot floor.

Result 1394kg's.

[funtime]

Originally Posted by titan

hah its ok I have very thick skin and well aware that my views often provoke reactions :D

Putting aside early years of car ownership, where the wife and I ran the SIDC (subaru club) - many years ago...we had an M3 from new. A fantastic car to jump into from an impreza because you appreciate things like build quality. The M3 was a slower car in terms of country lanes A to B though...

Another kid on the scene so I dobbed it in for an E60 M5. Another fantastic car in many ways but also very limited in others.

Eventually got rid of that and very quickly ended up with an X5, trailer and dedicated evo track car. Along the way got fed up with my evo breaking, so bought an M3, that was a tale of woe indeed and shortly after a CSL.

I'm no pro driver but to put some weight on my words, I've done a lot of trackdays, taken the M5 and M3 round the 'ring at okish speed, taken the evo round at 7:45 and managed to squeeze 2 trackdays out of the CSL in a relatively short period of ownership. So its not like I'm an internet forum hero who's never driven them.

I picked up a perfectly good M3 for £12k. The CSL I grabbed for £22k. Even I can grasp basic maths ;-)

In terms of its quality of build, practicality and performance it is near-as-dammit on an equal par with a stock M3, hence my comment "its not worth £10k extra". You are paying for the prestige and rarity.

Does anyone think that a V8 Atom is worth £150k when you can pick up an SC-300 Atom for £45k?

Just stand back and try and take an unbiased view. I love the quotes of weight being a factor - 1385Kg vs 1570Kg I think they were. 'course, everyone ordered theirs with aircon and electric this that and the other, so effectively reducing the lightweight advantage to negligible. And the M3 owner only has to take out his front seats to save a bucket of weight - man those things are HEAVY.

I really enjoy my CSL and think it does very well as both a road and a track car, and its built well enough. But the original question was about real world difference between M3 and CSL, there's been lots of "chat" but I'm not sure anyone other than me attempted to answer the OP in context.

Agreed, and I thank you for that, it's been the most informative post on here by a long way

Originally Posted by _Nathan_

Given the only real weight adding options were radio, xenons and ac there is little chance of speccing one up to near a normal m3.

Mine with 2/3 tank with ac and radio was 1420kg, still heavy but not m3 heavy.

I maintain the quicker car on the road from a to b will be the one with the least cautious driver...

Let's just put this into context here...

When you refer to someone being the 'least cautious driver', I'm guessing that your referring to the fact that you would drive a normal M3 worth 10-15k faster than you would your 25-30k CSL?

Well if you spare a thought for those that might not be able to afford a CSL just yet, you'll soon realise that what is 30k to you, might be 10k to others, and in fact most of these cars are indeed our 'pride and joy' and are all driven with the same degree of caution.

It would be wonderful to drive a normal M3 like a loon and think 'oh well it's only 10k if I put it in the ditch'. But sadly that's not the case here.

[AlexGTT]

Originally Posted by funtime

Agreed, and I thank you for that, it's been the most informative post on here by a long way

But inaccurate if you read my post.

[shimmy]

Originally Posted by funtime

Agreed, and I thank you for that, it's been the most informative post on here by a long way



Let's just put this into context here...

When you refer to someone being the 'least cautious driver', I'm guessing that your referring to the fact that you would drive a normal M3 worth 10-15k faster than you would your 25-30k CSL?

Well if you spare a thought for those that might not be able to afford a CSL just yet, you'll soon realise that what is 30k to you, might be 10k to others, and in fact most of these cars are indeed our 'pride and joy' and are all driven with the same degree of caution.

It would be wonderful to drive a normal M3 like a loon and think 'oh well it's only 10k if I put it in the ditch'. But sadly that's not the case here.

James, I think you are reading that wrong, Nathans CSL. Is worth more than all our cars and it gets treated with no respect when Hr drives it. I think Nathan was referring to the fact that the fastest guy driving on the road is the one with the least respect for pedestrians abd other road users (the one who us prepared to risk more and not necessarily
Money)

[AlexGTT]

Originally Posted by shimmy

James, I think you are reading that wrong, Nathans CSL. Is worth more than all our cars and it gets treated with no respect when Hr drives it. I think Nathan was referring to the fact that the fastest guy driving on the road is the one with the least respect for pedestrians abd other road users (the one who us prepared to risk more and not necessarily
Money)

Exactly. There's a time and place for everything. It's been a very many years since I felt the need to out-do another car on the road.

There's plenty of opportunity to stretch the legs on cars like the CSL where I live, but that's for my satisfaction and at no risk to anyone else.

I'm sure that applies to most on this site.

[funtime]

Originally Posted by shimmy

James, I think you are reading that wrong, Nathans CSL. Is worth more than all our cars and it gets treated with no respect when Hr drives it. I think Nathan was referring to the fact that the fastest guy driving on the road is the one with the least respect for pedestrians abd other road users (the one who us prepared to risk more and not necessarily
Money)

oh dear, FAIL I'm sorry I totally got the wrong end of the stick if that's what he meant, in which case, yes I agree - what about track in that case then?

Apologies

Originally Posted by AlexGTT

Exactly. There's a time and place for everything. It's been a very many years since I felt the need to out-do another car on the road.

There's plenty of opportunity to stretch the legs on cars like the CSL where I live, but that's for my satisfaction and at no risk to anyone else.

I'm sure that applies to most on this site.

I want to live where you do!

[daniel]

Originally Posted by AlexGTT

My CSL has Aircon, Xenons and Radio. When standard on Simpson's scales with 1/4 tank it's 1422kg's. It's now 1394kg's.

My old M3 with a decent spec. On Simpson's scales with the same fuel load was 1595kg's.

I'd say that's significant.

It's also a significantly different experience to drive but I understand where your coming from.

Is an RS worth £20k more or that much better than a GT3? Pointless arguement really. It just is that way. Same with a CSL.

On Simpson's scales with a full tank my car comes in at 1570KG (manual M3). Assuming the difference between a full tank and 1/4 is 48KG, 6KG saved on the CSL wheels vs BMW 18s, 4KG for APs, the difference isn't that big really (90KG). I guess you could drop 35-40KG on front seats alone?

[_Nathan_]

Originally Posted by funtime

oh dear, FAIL I'm sorry I totally got the wrong end of the stick if that's what he meant, in which case, yes I agree - what about track in that case then?

Shim is right, I was referring to the fact that you can only drive to your visibility, the one prepared to risk the blind corner, the dodgy overtake etc etc will be the quicker between 2 points.

On track with equal drivers a CSL will batter a standard M3.

[_Nathan_]

Originally Posted by daniel

On Simpson's scales with a full tank my car comes in at 1570KG (manual M3). Assuming the difference between a full tank and 1/4 is 48KG, 6KG saved on the CSL wheels vs BMW 18s, 4KG for APs, the difference isn't that big really (90KG). I guess you could drop 35-40KG on front seats alone?

3/4 tank = approx 45L = approx 33KG

CSL disks weigh more than M3 disks to start with too so not sure you can compare the weight loss evenly between the two cars?

Either way it is a considerable difference.