Michelin Cup 2 (two) - Page 4

Clubber · 07-05-2015, 08:26 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by alexk

The CSL size is now available at 265/30/19.

Is anyone going to try it anytime soon ?
It would be good to understand if it's an improvement or not so as we can stock up tyres or not

Great news, where did you get that info ? Did they come up with 265/35/18 too for square setup users ?

Das Chin · 07-05-2015, 08:41 AM

some of the GT3 boys really really rate them and they are noticeably better than the old cup tyres in all conditions.

especially damp and wet if a little cold where the old cups were 'entertaining'.

the Cup 2 is not as good as the Trofeo R on track as that is marginally faster.

its the way I am going for my GT3 once the current once are fubarred.

**alexk** · 07-05-2015, 11:11 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Clubber

Great news, where did you get that info ? Did they come up with 265/35/18 too for square setup users ?

reifendirekt

Quote:

Originally Posted by Das Chin

some of the GT3 boys really really rate them and they are noticeably better than the old cup tyres in all conditions.

especially damp and wet if a little cold where the old cups were 'entertaining'.

the Cup 2 is not as good as the Trofeo R on track as that is marginally faster.

its the way I am going for my GT3 once the current once are fubarred.

I am not interested in damp and wet conditions.
I only care about performance in the racetrack.
The porsche crew often compare to the cup+ which is inferior to the original cup.
Thats why I dont know and I keep asking.

conleth m3 · 20-05-2015, 04:58 PM

hi alex

i've tried a few different versions of cups, on different cars so not able to directly compare but can tell you what ive found, here goes, i apologise for the long winded response but will try and make it as simple as i can

short answer - yes get the cup2's but lower the pressures - lower than cup1's

long answer

ive used original cups on both csl and e46m3 are awesome, as you'll know. correct load rating 87y or 89y i think?

cups used by porsche owners are not the same as the cup+ that are inferior - the e92 m3 bmw fitment, 93/94 speed rating

although they are often marketed as cup+ and printed on the sidewall - on 305 rears but not 235 fronts

n rated cups and cup+ pattern is just a 19inch thing as far as i know, if you order 18inch cups there is no different tread pattern or N rating,

specific cups for porsche are N rated. in 19inch size have a different tread pattern - for 235 section fronts. this has the wider 3 grooves. they are very similar to bmw spec csl original cups, as long as they are the correct 87y speed rating. or 89y rating for the 245/35/19 - as per 997.2 gt3rs

cup+ that ive tried are 245/35/19 section fronts and 265/35/19 rears and have a 93/94 speed rating. on an e46m3. they have the extra groove in the tread pattern. they dont feel like original cups, are more like a road tyre -PS2 - with the cup tread pattern. using these on the ring i've found they feel more like a road tyre for how much grip they have, dont feel like an 'R' tyre - cup/888/trofeo etc

the rears (ive used 305/30/19 (89y - i think) on the gt3) are called cup+ (on the sidewall as well) they have the extra groove in the tread. these are awesome and offer the same grip as original cups on the csl

ive had cup2's fitted to the gt3 since the end of last summer. they feel great. done 4 trackdays in them and have found them to be as good as original cup1's. lap times at least as good (slightly better - but might not be completely down to the tyres) feel like they offer the same level of grip but as its taken a few days to get the pressures right i think they may have better grip overall.

spoke to a michelin guy providing tyre support at a trackday, who suggested running them lower than cup1's.

on the gt3 i ran cup1's at 33psi 36psi rear hot. even 1-2 psi higher or lower felt less grip/less stable. he suggested ~31psi all round. though i have heard from other gt3 owners between 30-33psi works best. ive settled on 31/32 front and 33psi rear hot - which feels great

they are better in the wet than cup1's, still not fantastic though. but wouldnt expect, or really mind that much.

wear is much better. my current set has are less than half worn. so i expect 8-9 trackdays with road milage inbetween. i was getting about 6 days on cup1's on the gt3

hth

conleth

**alexk** · 20-05-2015, 08:18 PM

hi conleth

Great feedback, many thanks!
Exactly what I wanted to hear to be honest.
My next set will be cup2s and then I can also do a direct comparison on the CSL.

conleth m3 · 21-05-2015, 12:58 PM

no probs alex, glad its useful!

Clubber · 22-05-2015, 11:30 AM

They just added 265/35/18 track sizes too. Perfect timing for the season. Will try them once the cups are worn out.

Clubber · 04-06-2015, 10:16 PM

I didn't try them personally but I recently had a long discussion with some engineers from both michelin and pirelli and they all summed up the Cup2 as the best street/track tire at the moment. Heats up faster for ease of daily use and better wet traction but for dry track use original Cups are still the ultimate Michelin.

Although that doesn't say it is the ultimate semi-slick. I also met and discussed with a few racing teams and highly modded record car owners that the ultimate semi-slick track tire is Pirelli Trofeo R. This is coming from teams whom used them all, tried Cup2 when it came out but quickly returned to Trofeo R.

They are a little on the expensive side but thanks to the production being here in Turkey makes them a tiny bit cheaper than their global prices.

I'll try to make the most of my cups this summer but when the weather cools down during autumn which is when we get our best times, I'll have a go with these highly regarded Trofeo R's.

**alexk** · 04-06-2015, 11:03 PM

Trying the Trofeo R is in my to-do list.
It's damn expensive though...

knoxville · 01-09-2015, 10:34 PM

Ran a set of Cup2's 265 all round 18" setup at Croft recently. Not great in terms of outright grip but lots of fun even with getting black flagged. They handled the rain soaked drive back down the A1 well enough though.

I've never ran on any other cups but the way people rave about them I can only assume these cup 2's are nowhere near as good. Not bad for 600 sheets but by no means up there with the DZ03.

07-05-2015, 08:41 AM	#32
Das Chin S5 - Full Throttle Join Date: Mar 2013 Location: kent Posts: 477 Casino cash: $5938	some of the GT3 boys really really rate them and they are noticeably better than the old cup tyres in all conditions. especially damp and wet if a little cold where the old cups were 'entertaining'. the Cup 2 is not as good as the Trofeo R on track as that is marginally faster. its the way I am going for my GT3 once the current once are fubarred. __________________ 996 GT3 mk2 Guards Red

20-05-2015, 08:18 PM	#35
alexk Driving it like I nicked it Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,784 Casino cash: $29947	hi conleth Great feedback, many thanks! Exactly what I wanted to hear to be honest. My next set will be cup2s and then I can also do a direct comparison on the CSL. __________________ www.clubcsl.com - I am a BMW Motorsport fan ! My youtube channel is here

22-05-2015, 11:30 AM	#37
Clubber S5 - Full Throttle Join Date: May 2010 Location: Istanbul Posts: 359 Casino cash: $6310	They just added 265/35/18 track sizes too. Perfect timing for the season. Will try them once the cups are worn out. __________________ Can, '04 M3 CSL ,'87 M3

04-06-2015, 10:16 PM	#38
Clubber S5 - Full Throttle Join Date: May 2010 Location: Istanbul Posts: 359 Casino cash: $6310	I didn't try them personally but I recently had a long discussion with some engineers from both michelin and pirelli and they all summed up the Cup2 as the best street/track tire at the moment. Heats up faster for ease of daily use and better wet traction but for dry track use original Cups are still the ultimate Michelin. Although that doesn't say it is the ultimate semi-slick. I also met and discussed with a few racing teams and highly modded record car owners that the ultimate semi-slick track tire is Pirelli Trofeo R. This is coming from teams whom used them all, tried Cup2 when it came out but quickly returned to Trofeo R. They are a little on the expensive side but thanks to the production being here in Turkey makes them a tiny bit cheaper than their global prices. I'll try to make the most of my cups this summer but when the weather cools down during autumn which is when we get our best times, I'll have a go with these highly regarded Trofeo R's. __________________ Can, '04 M3 CSL ,'87 M3

04-06-2015, 11:03 PM	#39
alexk Driving it like I nicked it Join Date: Mar 2009 Posts: 2,784 Casino cash: $29947	Trying the Trofeo R is in my to-do list. It's damn expensive though... __________________ www.clubcsl.com - I am a BMW Motorsport fan ! My youtube channel is here

20-05-2015, 04:58 PM	#34
conleth m3 S4 - Getting the hang of it Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 218 Casino cash: $9386	hi alex i've tried a few different versions of cups, on different cars so not able to directly compare but can tell you what ive found, here goes, i apologise for the long winded response but will try and make it as simple as i can short answer - yes get the cup2's but lower the pressures - lower than cup1's long answer ive used original cups on both csl and e46m3 are awesome, as you'll know. correct load rating 87y or 89y i think? cups used by porsche owners are not the same as the cup+ that are inferior - the e92 m3 bmw fitment, 93/94 speed rating although they are often marketed as cup+ and printed on the sidewall - on 305 rears but not 235 fronts n rated cups and cup+ pattern is just a 19inch thing as far as i know, if you order 18inch cups there is no different tread pattern or N rating, specific cups for porsche are N rated. in 19inch size have a different tread pattern - for 235 section fronts. this has the wider 3 grooves. they are very similar to bmw spec csl original cups, as long as they are the correct 87y speed rating. or 89y rating for the 245/35/19 - as per 997.2 gt3rs cup+ that ive tried are 245/35/19 section fronts and 265/35/19 rears and have a 93/94 speed rating. on an e46m3. they have the extra groove in the tread pattern. they dont feel like original cups, are more like a road tyre -PS2 - with the cup tread pattern. using these on the ring i've found they feel more like a road tyre for how much grip they have, dont feel like an 'R' tyre - cup/888/trofeo etc the rears (ive used 305/30/19 (89y - i think) on the gt3) are called cup+ (on the sidewall as well) they have the extra groove in the tread. these are awesome and offer the same grip as original cups on the csl ive had cup2's fitted to the gt3 since the end of last summer. they feel great. done 4 trackdays in them and have found them to be as good as original cup1's. lap times at least as good (slightly better - but might not be completely down to the tyres) feel like they offer the same level of grip but as its taken a few days to get the pressures right i think they may have better grip overall. spoke to a michelin guy providing tyre support at a trackday, who suggested running them lower than cup1's. on the gt3 i ran cup1's at 33psi 36psi rear hot. even 1-2 psi higher or lower felt less grip/less stable. he suggested ~31psi all round. though i have heard from other gt3 owners between 30-33psi works best. ive settled on 31/32 front and 33psi rear hot - which feels great they are better in the wet than cup1's, still not fantastic though. but wouldnt expect, or really mind that much. wear is much better. my current set has are less than half worn. so i expect 8-9 trackdays with road milage inbetween. i was getting about 6 days on cup1's on the gt3 hth conleth

21-05-2015, 12:58 PM	#36
conleth m3 S4 - Getting the hang of it Join Date: Oct 2009 Posts: 218 Casino cash: $9386	no probs alex, glad its useful!

01-09-2015, 10:34 PM	#40
knoxville S3 - On the open road Join Date: Apr 2012 Posts: 81 Casino cash: $8390	Ran a set of Cup2's 265 all round 18" setup at Croft recently. Not great in terms of outright grip but lots of fun even with getting black flagged. They handled the rain soaked drive back down the A1 well enough though. I've never ran on any other cups but the way people rave about them I can only assume these cup 2's are nowhere near as good. Not bad for 600 sheets but by no means up there with the DZ03.