Is it an Automatic?

[Chappers]

I know we all have our opinions on what exactly Sequential MANUAL Gearbox means to us but that aside, in the eyes of the DVLA, is the CSL an automatic car? I.e. Can you drive it on an automatic license? My girlfriend is just about to pass her UK test (she's been driving for some time but is just settling in the UK and needs to pass her UK license) but with the Auto restriction.

There's a vague plan on going to france this year in the CSL for a bit of a road trip but the question is (aside from the obvious issue of letting a fairly inexperienced driver loose in a 360bhp RWD car), can she drive it on an auto license?

Where is this written? I don't have the V5 with me at the moment but I'm sure I couldn't see it when I briefly read it last time.

[Mike R]

I was under the impression that any car without a clutch peddle would be considered an automatic car as far as your driving license requirements were concerned.

[Johnnywb]

From memory, i've got a feeling it's classed a manual. I can't remember where it came up, it might have been through insurance when they get you to select the model?

(So it obviously means nothing, but i'm assuming they base their classification on something)

Just checked my V5 and nothing in there about it either way.

[cslsuperfan]

Originally Posted by Mike R

I was under the impression that any car without a clutch peddle would be considered an automatic car as far as your driving license requirements were concerned.

Sounds an acceptable, common sense approach....

that'll be treated as a manual then

[Mike R]

This is from the DT1 form given to DSA examiners and this is what the official guidelines state regarding automatic transmissions:

<<
6.8 VEHICLES WITH AUTOMATIC TRANSMISSION
A vehicle with automatic transmission is defined in regulations as `A vehicle in which the gear ratio between the engine and the wheels can be varied only by the use of the accelerator or brakes'. In general a vehicle without a manual clutch is regarded as an automatic.

The following points of driving technique are common to all automatic systems:

HANDBRAKE
The handbrake should be applied for temporary stops, e.g. waiting at a red traffic light, a junction, or in a traffic hold-up, if they are likely to be of a long duration
Short stops may not require the application of the handbrake
The handbrake may need to be applied to prevent `creep'
Faults committed in these cases should be recorded at Handbrake

FOOTBRAKE AND ACCELERATOR
The use of the right foot for both brake and accelerator pedals has considerable safety advantages. It is therefore recommended practice for normal driving, but is not necessarily applicable to disabled drivers. The use of the left foot on the brake pedal should not however be marked as a fault unless it involves the use of the footbrake against the accelerator
The use of both feet when manoeuvring in a confined space is acceptable if carried out correctly, i.e. speed is properly adjusted so that no large throttle opening or heavy braking pressures are involved.
Any fault should be recorded at footbrake and/or Accelerator, or in the 'control' box if it occurs in the reversing, reverse parking, or turn in the road exercise

6.9 PARTICULAR DRIVING SYSTEMS

FULLY AUTOMATIC SYSTEM
This type has selector settings for forward and reverse, neutral and/or park. It also has settings which enable the driver to select and retain a particular gear ratio or range of gear ratios, e.g. to obtain engine braking when descending a steep hill, although gear changes are normally made automatically. Most automatics of this type enable the driver to make an immediate change into the lower gear, to obtain extra acceleration, by means of `kick down' or part throttle operation actuated by the accelerator pedal. In nearly all cases the selector lever is mounted on the floor or the steering column in the position normally occupied by the gear lever, but there are exceptions, e.g. a panel of press buttons on the facia.

SEMI-AUTOMATIC SYSTEMS
With these the driver has to select the gear required by movement of the gear lever as with a manually controlled gearbox, but there is no clutch pedal. For driving test and licensing purposes these vehicles are regarded as automatics.

PRE-SELECTOR SYSTEMS
In these the gear is selected, before it is required, by manual movement of a selector lever, which is normally mounted on the steering column. When required, the gear is engaged by a single depression and release of the gear-change pedal, which is situated where the clutch pedal would be on an orthodox transmission.

6.10 `THE CLUTCH' AND `GUIDOSIMPLEX'
These adaptations enable a vehicle to be driven in manual or automatic mode. The candidate can choose which mode to drive the vehicle in and if successful should be issued with the appropriate DSA10.
Disabled candidates may use the vehicle for a test in automatic mode as a means of overcoming their disability. If successful, the candidate should be issued with a restricted licence in the usual way.

6.11 CENTRIFUGAL CLUTCHES AND FREE-WHEEL DEVICES
Vehicles fitted with these devices do not fall within the definition of vehicles with automatic transmission. The use of a free-wheel device or centrifugal clutch in addition to a pedal-operated clutch is at the discretion of the candidate.

6.12 SUBARU `HILL HOLDER' CLUTCH
The `hill holder' clutch is fitted to manual versions of the Subaru Legacy estate and saloon models. Drivers are advised that when stopping on an incline they should take their foot off the brake pedal while keeping the clutch pedal depressed, this automatically engages the `hill holder' which prevents the vehicle from rolling back. To move off the driver selects first gear, releases the clutch and drives on in the normal way.
Note: If any doubt exist about whether a particular vehicle is a manual or automatic, advice should be sought from Technical Standards Branch at HQ. This enquiry should be made prior to the start of the test and the candidate informed of the decision before starting the practical drive.

6.13 CITROEN XM PARKING BRAKE
Citroen XMs are fitted with an `emergency and parking brake`. This brake is operated by the driver pushing in a control fitted under the offside face vent and depressing an additional foot pedal situated to the left of the clutch pedal on the manual model and to the left of the brake pedal on the automatic version. The parking brake is released by pulling out the control fitted on the dash.
The emergency brake can be operated by applying the additional pedal, which will operate the brakes without power assistance. Drivers are advised not to drive with the release control pushed in when driving normally.

[Chappers]

The problem here then is if the insurance class it as a manual but the DVLA class it as an Auto, then the insurance will require her to have a manual license and the DVLA won't care.

Best just bully her into being able to change gear properly then, or take her Z3.

[Mike R]

Originally Posted by Chappers

The problem here then is if the insurance class it as a manual but the DVLA class it as an Auto, then the insurance will require her to have a manual license and the DVLA won't care.

Best just bully her into being able to change gear properly then, or take her Z3.

I would be very surprised if the insurance company took a contrary view to DVLA - that just wouldn't make any sense.....

However, for piece of mind, just give them a call.

[Trawler]

A frend has only a licence for an automatic car & he purchased an E46 SMG a year ago with no problem with the insurance.

[Chappers]

You realise this is kind of the opposite of what I wanted to hear, right? At least before I had a legal excuse not to let her drive it...

[cslsuperfan]

Originally Posted by Chappers

You realise this is kind of the opposite of what I wanted to hear, right? At least before I had a legal excuse not to let her drive it...

Wooops

you'll have to pax with your good wife til she gets the hang of the sport button