BMW is tired of the CSL being used as the benchmark for all their new cars LOL!

[outnumbered]

First thing and this is for me the most important thing; you can drive fast and completely relaxed. You don’t feel how fast you are. Second thing and this thing is a big achievement;

That's good - I hate feeling that I'm going fast. Seems like BMW are onto a winner here.

[M5 Powered]

I forgot to add, and if I got this wrong do correct, but wasn't it also the CSL that BMW 'forgot' they had made when it came E92 ring timings... to the point it was removed in a BMW heritage line-up.

[Mike R]

My take on this is: WTF does BMW expect ? The latest all singing all dancing M2 Competition posted a slower 'ring lap time than his "favourite" car . 7.52:36 compared to 7.50 of the CSL . Given the Nurburgring is acknowledged as being a couple of seconds faster now than it was back then (due to the improvements to Flugplatz and other parts of the circuit considered dangerous following "that" tragic GTR incident from a few years ago), of course every subsequent M-car is still going to be benchmarked against this UNTIL they build something that is dynamically better .

They need to build a sub 1400kg car, not keep giving more power to cars that weigh closer to 1600kg.....

In addition, if the guy at BMW is saying that the most important thing for the M-cars is that the: "First thing and this is for me the most important thing; you can drive fast and completely relaxed. You don’t feel how fast you are."; then no wonder previous M-car owners feel disenfranchised from the brand , you WANT an M-car to feel fast, as that makes you feel connected to the vehicle and provides extra involvement. The problem with a car NOT feeling fast is that you have to drive it well outside the speed limits to gain a sense of excitement. The current MX5 is slow as anything, BUT the ride, handling and FEEL, all combine to make it an outstanding "fun" car to drive. Other car manufacturers would do well to remember this, rather than building just unexciting "appliances" that are devoid of any feeling of connection.

I worry for the BMW brand if this guy feels that the same anodyne qualities of a s h i t b o x daily should be applied across the whole range .

[Trawler]

summed up what I wanted to reply.

Originally Posted by Mike R

My take on this is: WTF does BMW expect ? The latest all singing all dancing M2 Competition posted a slower 'ring lap time than his "favourite" car . 7.52:36 compared to 7.50 of the CSL . Given the Nurburgring is acknowledged as being a couple of seconds faster now than it was back then (due to the improvements to Flugplatz and other parts of the circuit considered dangerous following "that" tragic GTR incident from a few years ago), of course every subsequent M-car is still going to be benchmarked against this UNTIL they build something that is dynamically better .

They need to build a sub 1400kg car, not keep giving more power to cars that weigh closer to 1600kg.....

In addition, if the guy at BMW is saying that the most important thing for the M-cars is that the: "First thing and this is for me the most important thing; you can drive fast and completely relaxed. You don’t feel how fast you are."; then no wonder previous M-car owners feel disenfranchised from the brand , you WANT an M-car to feel fast, as that makes you feel connected to the vehicle and provides extra involvement. The problem with a car NOT feeling fast is that you have to drive it well outside the speed limits to gain a sense of excitement. The current MX5 is slow as anything, BUT the ride, handling and FEEL, all combine to make it an outstanding "fun" car to drive. Other car manufacturers would do well to remember this, rather than building just unexciting "appliances" that are devoid of any feeling of connection.

I worry for the BMW brand if this guy feels that the same anodyne qualities of a s h i t b o x daily should be applied across the whole range .

[CSLSEM3]

Sorry to dredge this back up but this crap really feels like the future of BMW.

Fat, overpowered, numb, crowd pleasers. This apparently sells cars to the masses. Personally, I am perfectly fine BMW selling these types of cars. But it would be nice if they could remember their roots and deliver a hard-edged halo car for the die-yards that sweat the brand.

Make the car feel like you are going fast, when you are approaching fast, not at triple digit speeds.

The comfort of a 5 series is great, but if we wanted a 5er we'd go get one. Stop making the 3 into a 5er (too late I guess as the outgoing 3er is the size of an E39). Clearly the 2er is the new 3er.

NVH in a dynamic chassis is good. Take away some weight, and bring back some NVH.

Rant off.

[Mperfect]

Rant away

100% agree with all been said. They just don’t seem to understand or care

Somehow, Frohlich portrays an experience that he thinks I want but which definitely doesn’t match my own. BMW made its reputation with me as being the Ultimate Driving Machine and CSL was the pinnacle of that. I will always want that communicative chassis and steering with that distinctive feeling and feedback. A real sense of occasion, a thrill and a joy to drive. To answer Frohlich point, would I walk past the E82 to get to the F87? No.... Why was the swap F32 back to E92 V8 made...
I've been luck enough to have had BMW cars for over 20 years but personably feel M brand no longer priorities that halo and ultimate driving machine experience but maximum profits with minimum investment. Perhaps I’m wrong and I’ve got to that age where I’m suffering from nostalgia sickness. I also think it’s an unfortunate sign of the times when companies ignore the desires their true dedicated support base and believe in there own marketing PR bullshit.

This continued path of lets add more power to combat the lardiness doesn’t wash anymore

[Alx]

I have been very disappointed with BMWs philosophy and designs for the past 15 years.

The way things are going, I think the M3 CSL will be my last BMW. And this comes from an (ex)die-hard BMW fan...

I added a manual Porsche 997.2 to the stable and I love it!