Real world difference between an M3 and a CSL...
 

Evening all, I wonder if you could share your opinions and experiences with me.

I have an M3 SMG at the moment and have been hankering after a CSL for the last year. I haven't yet driven a CSL, nor come across one on track to make the comparison so here's where you lucky CSL owners come in.

Looks aside (as I don't want to make mine look like something it's not) what would you say would be the difference between the car's below round a track like Silverstone, and the ring?

A) M3 SMG with a few choice mod's - Ap's all round, Intrax coilovers, limiter kit, remap and the all important 18's

B)Standard CSL

C)CSL with the same modifications as A)

The CSL is roughly £15k ontop of my M3 and whilst it's also going to hold it's money better and is no doubt the better car all round, I'm just trying to establish how much difference there actually is in the real world when compared to an M3 with £4-5k's worth of proper modifications...

Munich Legends are currently looking for a CSL for me so as soon as they find a nice one i'll have the chance to experience the difference but until then i'm just weighing up the options.

Thanks, James

The csl will make you feel like a god at silverstone taking the trickiest corner at about 2 mph faster than your tin top m3,:thumbs:Oh and the brakes are slightly larger so disipitate heat slightly better,and they hate getting dirty the car i mean.

The CSL feels very different and comparing stock for stock they work very differently on track BUT if you are prepared to modify your M3 you can improve it quite alot more than we can improve the CSL making them much closer in performance BUT not many will add the all important airbox, cams or suspension components that make it work so well.

The sound is hard to replicate for sure.

:hahaha: I wondered if you would surface, that's where your wrong though - you should treat yours like a filthy whore when it comes out the garage. Polish is for girls :gayfight: 2mph around the whole track would be a reasonable difference though :)

Yes that's what I was thinking, I can close the gap as such. I know you say replicate but I don't want to achieve the sound as I know I can't, I just want to see how close I can come to the real world performance round a track as the CSL. However I don't want to spend anywhere near the difference between the two cars getting there. Hence the small list of proper modifications.

Keep them coming :)

You proved your m3 was quicker than a 500 hp m5 with worn tyres and mega slippery track, I think buy csl for great looks rarity value nice carbon bits sound of course the sound is what keeps me hooked the nice duck tail spoiler feels nice when polishing:gayfight: the thin glass back window special suspension changes spring and damper rates set perfectly for the ring the whole package really, it wont be night and day difference to yours but believe me you wont regret it just keep it clean to treat it mean.:thumbs:

An M3 remaped alpha n and gearbox software, air box with properly sorted Intrax and sticky rubber with a light exhaust system will be quicker then a standard csl

I've had both the M3 smg and the csl. I dont think you can compare them. Yes you can mod the M3, as I did, but the driving experience is totally different. They handle differently, sound differently they are so different. Until you actually drive one you wont understand or believe the difference. I DIDN'T :)

How come alpha mapping, airbox csl has cup tyres csl has sorted suspension csl has csl is lighter has uprated cams ect you would need to do more to make standard m3 quicker me thinks.:smokin:

this is soooo dependant on the driver IMHO

Very true :supz:

we wernt talking about the driver we were talking about the car properly set up intrax will generate way more mechanical grip then a CSL. The chassis is identical so are all the pick up points if you spend 6K wisely on an M3 it will be quicker then a csl
drop the weight out seats etc as well. roll bars suspension and some other stuff job done.

Just my 2p's worth and not a dig at M3 owners in anyway...

I would push a 10k M3 with 4-5ks worth of mods MUCH harder than a 25 - 28k CSL round a track. Its not just the value - its getting another good CSL! You would have to spend days traveling all over, where as an M3 can be sourced much easier.

I was on KH at the same time as a lad in a 8k M3 with rock solid suspension and slicks and I could get no where near!!

It was my first time out in the car, but he was attacking corners like there was no tomorrow!

Oh, an it arrived on a trailer - I was driving home and going to work in it the next day :whistle:

Stevie

If you are creating a track only car that can drive too and from tracks. Buy an M3

If you want a better road/track car without sacrificial mods, but still be fast, buy a CSL.


Just remember anything you can fit to an M3 can be fitted to an already better base car, a CSL.

You already know the answer to your questions.;)

You raise a very good point and of course it's not a dig at M3 owners, however to be honest as soon as I'm on a track the value of my car escapes my mind and always has done. Bottom line is, everyones car is their pride and joy, no matter how much it's worth.

I've never held back on track no matter how much the car has been worth but I totally see your point as a lot of people worry about binning it, I just try and get round as quick as I can.

It sounds by the general comments that more of the focus about the CSL is the feel of the whole car and the capability out of the box as opposed to a standard M3. However, you pay a premium for this, and all I am trying to figure out is if I will get any real benefit round a track from a CSL over my M3 once I've spent some money improving it, besides it feeling more 'special'.

Decisions decisions...

I'm not technical enough to agree or disagree

would I go back to an E46 M3 smg and spend 6k on it to see if I could get it running better than a standard CSL and pocket the difference

no

I think you might have just summed it up perfectly... I don't want to create a track only car, however I do want a car that will be quicker both fast road and on track.

However I wasn't talking about making what I would call any 'sacrificial' mods, suspension, brakes etc - i'd still leave the heated leather in :)

Track days are a bit of fun in your own car (or someone elses) would I drive my car to the max on a track day, nope.
Would I buy a track only car and race to the max, yes no problem, that's where my 6k would be going :)

I had 2 M3 CSLs then bought the M3 :whistle: M3 was sold after 5 days then Back in a CSL :smt055:thumbs:

The M3 is a great car but feels heavy, If you drive a CSL after the M3 you will love it they are miles apart unless you like heated seats :hahaha:

+1;)

Yeah see that's the thing, I don't want a track only car as me and my girlfriend use my car when we go anywhere really so a track only car would be as popular as a $hit sandwich with her...

I think I just need to drive a CSL, although I just want to think about my options before I drive one - I dont want the carbon airbox howl blinkers to take hold of me and buy the CSL there and then on impulse! :supz:

It might sound silly, but the thing I would like most is M Track :thumbs:

However I wouldn't buy a CS before you say, as they are not far behind CSL prices and not much better than an M3.

And I dont have big enough balls to drive everywhere with traction off :gayfight:

I've driven my CSL on track for 3 seasons now and feel that i can hustle it around at a reasonable pace at least.

I still get normal M3's that occasionally pass me at the Ring but such normal M3's have either had extensive modifications (Cup tyres, BBK, re-map, airbox, weight-loss and are often caged) or they're being driven by a very good (or very crazy) driver!

The bottom line is apart from some choice brake modifications (pads, braided lines) the CSL is very, very good in standard form, sounds special, and certainly feels very special, and will stand up better to depreciation over time than a standard M3. If you plan on keeping her for many years - buy a CSL.

I like my CSL :smt055

If you are thinking of buying, and test drive one, you will buy one:thumbs:

I had an M3 CS for a few years before I foolishly moved to the darkside (Datsun GTR); but recovered and bought the CSL. All I can say it (CSL) just feels sharper and more agile than the M3 to me it was night and day! :thumbs:

+1 ^^^ :whistle:

I get the itch all over again, every time my mate calls round in my old one:whistle:

If you like M track, then you drive like a pussy, simple. ;)

I think I just need to drive a CSL, although I just want to think about my options before I drive one - I dont want the carbon airbox howl blinkers to take hold of me and buy the CSL there and then on impulse! :supz:[/quote]I did,:hahaha::hahaha:.

i met a guy today for the first time, hes not on the forums and loves his BMWs. He has had 2 CSLs and can see himself getting another one as everything else just aint the same.

Sooo many CSL owners talk of the CSL like it was the best car theyve ever owned even when thye have obviously owned far better ones for sure but some how it seems to just to appeal to a certain type.

Id say drive one and find out. Feck the mrs, buy here a Polo with the saving on depreciation if she dont like it.


However i also have troiuble driving my CSL above 90% of its capabilities as i have to drive it home as well.:smokin:

Great Thread!

We've sold around 8-10 M3s over the past few years inc my old CS. Nothing prepares your for the sensory bombardment ! They are just awesome things to drive.

They sounds like they are gonna eat you! The turn it is more crisp than any car I've owned this side of my old Evo 8RS on Intermediate too, yet can put the kids in it (with ISOFIX!) and take the family out for a run with not many moans from the Wife.

What a package!

Aye, you need to get a shot of one. I'm sure someone isn't far from you, would be willing to show you just how special the CSL is.

No one's mentioned the steering. My mate has an M3 and everytime is gets a shot of my CSL he comments on A) the seats and driving position before B) the steering and then finally C) the induction ROAR! So different from a standard M3.

Where are you Funtime?

:hahaha: a little harsh surly? MonkeyCSL was only yesterday telling me how great M-track was, although this was after he'd finished talking about stroking the duck tail spoiler and installing a glass wall in his living room so he could sit and stroke himself whilst gazing at his CSL :hahaha:

Seriously though, I want M-track as I find the normal DSC to intrusive for normal driving, yet I don't want to turn it off as the one time I don't 'catch the back' and bin it I'd feel uber stupid.

Do you drive with DSC completely off everywhere then Lawsy?

i like M Track:thumbs:

I sold my M3 e46 after 10 months

I have owned CSL's for 7 years and I won't be selling for the next 7

T$

I'm in Crawley unfortunately :hahaha:

Turn in is one of the things the guys at Munich said is so much better than the standard M3 - I know they have a different steering rack, but is alot of the turn in just down to the standard CSL geo settings i.e the negative camber etc?

If you changed the M3 suspension and dialled in the same settings wouldn't this geo and turn-in capability be achievable with very little work?

If anyone is near by that and wouldn't mind having a chat and taking me out in theirs that would be much appreciated though :)

are they that old really!

where is Crawley?

I was at M Legends this morning!

That explains everything then Shim, besides you have the MX5 now for 100% attack

;) Just a joke, but really if you need M track on track then you will not be fast fast IMO.

I did do yes, sadly not a csl owner no more, only time I used M track, was pissing down rain on track and for first few sessions only. Then it was sideways , I really learnt alot about the breakaway points with dsc off, esp in the wet, I then put the lesson learnt to use on dry track, making me faster.

M track will not save a physics defying spin, if you cant catch yourself what M track stops, then yes you will need it.

Some corners a little spin up helps, others not so, but you soon learn which corners they are.

M track is ok, but its a very primative system, compared to ferrari system which can make anyone look like a legend, it is in the ice age.

But if you are slowly learning and new to M3 and rwd then its a good stepping stone.

I was brought up on rwd so I like a bit of arse action, well so the rumours say anyhow;):gayfight:

Please feel free to correct me if I'm wrong ;)

T$

yer have to drive them feckers at 120%:hahaha: