SUSPENSION CHOICE KW or NITRON...!!! (heeelp )
 

hey guys...

I am facing this problem of what suspension to use for my car..

i now am on TEIN ss coilover...yeah i know not the best but i am very satisfied so far....

Now i am looking for something better...

my choices are kw clubsport or nitron...

I am not going to the track so often but i want something good either way..

I want the car to behave like an M3 but firmer more stable...
When hitting a pothole i don't want to feel like the suspension is bottomed out...
Neither to feel the car hard, bumpy or crashy

I want a reduced body roll ( fr/r bushes , anti roll bars , struts allready on the car ) but with a superb handling...( too much to ask ha?...)

With the Clubsport i have a shop here that specializes on the KW line coilovers ( plus i found the settings from you guys on here) and proposed a set of more stiffer springs too and he is also in no question that only the clubsport can work properly in my car for what i want...


With the Nitron( sport+ or track ) i can get a pretty good price through someone i know, it is a monotube design, and seem like pretty wellmade... but it really is uncharted territory for me and for the techs here in Greece, maybe this could be overcome through your help guys...

So any input from you guys that have seen both suspensions in action is very much needed !!!

So please chime in !!!!

If you want aftermarket and don't intend to track the car very often then i would plump for the KWs out of those two although i do think that you may be better going for KW V3 rather than the Clubsport?

Have you thought of trying a set of CSL OEM suspension? Certainly worthy of consideration.

After 4 years of ownership in various guises my conclusion is that unless you are doing multiple trackdays and car is not a daily drive STICK TO OEM SUSPENSION.

It is far better suited to UK roads than any aftermarket suspension I have seen. Coilovers at thecrear ovviously have serious warranty issues and potential for refusal of goodwill on subframe cracking and will make the road ride slower and harsher.

I guess thus advice wil fall on deaf ears. I certainly ignored it 2 years ago.;)

If you do ignore it, try Intrax IK2

Cant speak for Intrax as not experienced them, clubsports are perfect for road and track, but if your not really tracking then I would agree OEM or if you wanted the ' look ' of a slightly lower meaner CSL with OEM handling to a degree then the V3's are the right choice I would say...

Daz

I think you will find the KW's to stiff for the road including V3. Stick with oem CSL or if you must then nitron with a soft spring rate, they will tailor there suspension to what you want. Better than KW and very good quality monotube shock rather than twin tube KW.

Nick lives in Greece Shim ;)

I find my Intrax fine. Lots of adjustment from soft to hard and easy to adjust. Mind you, we have some very fine driving roads here in Wales. ;) That makes a difference.

If it was an every day car or if I lived in a built up area, I'd definately stick to OEM.

Greece has even worse roads!! haha:thumbs:

well how the fuck was i meant to know that!:hahaha:

(I VOTE FOR COMPULSORY NATIONAL FLAGS NEXT TIO OUR NAMES)



true but great souvlaki!:smt055

yeah but hairy women! But i hear some of you guys like that??:drool:

I think this line may be the giveaway... :whistle:

Chump.

i thought he was an illiterate mechanic!:smokin:

What strengthening method did you go for on the rear turret's Alex?

You got done there Shim and you know it! :thumbs: :bigcry: :bigcry: ;)

I have additional plates on the turrets as a temporary measure. Julian at Simpson's is making a proper solution for me. I may develop that into a half cage this Winter, along with some sub-frame strengthening measures. Mine has no signs of the dreaded cracks yet but I thought it better to be pro-active in this area.

I think I'll be doing the same if and when the time comes mate, mine (touch wood!) at the moment is solid as a rock and clean as a whistle underneath, I'm very very tempted on the KW's but would really like Simpson's to be able to set them up!

ok ok...

first of all......

WE DO NOT HAVE HAIRY WOMEN IN GREECE !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!hahahahahahahaha!!!!!!!
ever been in Greek islands in summer time?...
well if you don't...... to bad for you guys !!!!!!!:thumbs:
oh and yeah "souvlaki" does kick ass...!!!!



as far as the susp goes...my mistake that i did not point my location...
Greece - Athens = F@cked up roads....

BUT i have driven on stock suspension and frankly did not like it...
i have driven a couple of csl's too...waaay better but still not quite...

Ever driven a GT3 997 guys?
that's the best combo...the car is firm, planted, but you don't hear anything, don't feel like sh!t when going over potholes or train rails....
yet it is so much stable...

Now the tech here says that with the clubsport i will have the same result....
A friend with the nitron - track, said the same....

WHAT THE HECK TO DO !?!?!?!?!?!??!!

i don't track the car but i really really want something good when on the track or on journeys ( in which i tend to kick the car's @ss...)


SO????

any more info on the road behavior?

how about Nitron sport+ ?

i now am running -2 fr/r camber and love it so i want the camber plates....

i would love intrax but more expensive, no one to dial it in, coilover in the back...

At this point the clubsport seems to be in the lead...

I am about to spend 2,5k more on this car which i have already spend more than enough...

sorry to be so annoying but i am depending on your knowledge....:beer:


p.s. visit greece in the summer :whistle::whistle:

KW Clubsport it is then!

Cheers Nick ...very kind can I have the last week in July and first in August ?? ... :hahaha:

Good luck with your problemo mate !

just tell me when mate!!!!!!:thumbs:

come on give me a hand here!!!!

Nick, you may want to take a look at ASTs as well. They're a monotube shock. Works very well at the track, which is what I primarily use it for, but also stock like comfort for street use.

This will give Nick a headache ... 3 options ! ..... Intrax for me here :thumbs:

I run Nitrons & IMO work great on track. Makes damping adjustment a doddle being in the engine bay. Not having to lay on your back & crawl under the car with a wee allen key or similar is a big plus. Little hard on road as I have uprated springs, but all the better for what the car is used for. PM moi if you need any more details, I can put you in touch with someone if wanting to go that route. Good Luck. :thumbs:

i was thinking about AST as well but changed my mind for the same reasons plus the fact that some guys had some fitting problems so....

where can i find a quote for the intrax suspension???

it seems to be very popular here....!!!

come on guys!!!

keep em coming!!!

cheers!!!

Try Simpson Motorsport for Intrax. They now it inside out.;)

Moton has a streetsport kit and I think JRZ does as well.

So basically you don't want the car to be hard neither you want a track oriented setup.
Road and track suspension kits tend to be a bit hard for road use.
Also take into account that your car is significantly heavier than a CSL and the suspension that works well in a CSL won't work in your M3.

Could this be the solution ?

one thing for the suspension is to be stiff and firm and it is another thing for the suspension to give you the idea of constantly bottoming out and be harsh on its reactions and only performing good on flat roads or the track...if you go over a road anomaly or a potholr with a GOOD suspension to absorb the beating right is it going to be the same thing with a so n so susp? no!

i did not ask a velvet carpet to put my car on it....

i asked opinions based on experience for 2-3 specific set up's that have my attention... and the people here have this experience...

some more input and i think i am convinced...

my car weights at 1490kg with 1/2 tank of gas in it...
i think it's quite good and there is some more to be saved in the very near future...around 40kg more with my poor estimates...


sorry did not understand the pic..care to be more clear?

This is what is happening 99% of the time when someone puts a 'race' suspension to use it on the road.
It is better in one area, and worse in another 9 areas.
That's exactly why shimmy said earlier that the OEM suspension is the best thing for the road.
That's also the reason why I personally didn't change my suspension. Most of my kilometers are on the road (Swiss road which is better quality than many racetracks).

Also, my opinion is that if someone doesn't understand what the car is doing, it's better to stay away from adjustable suspension. You don't need any suspension wizards to tune the suspension if you understand what the car is doing and what you need to change.
Now don't get me wrong about this, that I am saying something between the lines. Quite the opposite, I am saying this in general because I have seen many guys with a super-duper suspension and have no clue about suspension settings/behavior whatsoever.

Last but not least, I will be able to provide some feedback next year about my favourite Ohlins suspension :whistle:

Just a little joke ;) :hahaha: nothing serious.
What I'm not sure about though is how you're getting your regular "PHAT" M3 down to these weights :smt017 when a GENUINE M3 CSL (without any options, so: no A/C, no CD player, no Xenons or PDC or even Comfort screen) is 1460 kg with 90% fuel, 68 kg driver and 7kg luggage... or 75 kg driver without luggage :whistle:

Different car (evo), but I did the "what suspension?" thing to death this year. Looked (hard) at Nitron, KW, Exe-tc, Ohlins etc. In the end I went for KW competition 3-way (pricey!)

Now I'm about to do the suspension on my CSL.

What I can tell you that I've learnt along the way...

1. Unless you are a suspension guru, stick to a single adjuster setup !
2. Ideally, top-adjusters are best to save scrabbling around underneath the car
3. Consider carefully the after-sales service you will get. If you need advice on fitting/setup, is your supplier available on the phone and speaks the same language (the real KW setup guy is German, has good english but its not the same...) Also when it comes to needing them serviced/repaired, how easy/costly is that going to be?
4. If you've an off-the-shelf kinda car, buy an off-the-shelf package :)
5. Choose a vendor with a proven experience in your car, not just x years in the suspension industry - all cars are different.


For what its worth, for my CSL I'm going with intrax 1k2 from simpson. My next choice would have been KW Clubsports. If KW had a decent (fitting/setup) outfit in the UK I might have gone for them, but their UK arm is just a box-shift job.

HTH !

cheers
Lee.

Me too, hopefully :whistle:
BTW didn't the LOADED CSL run Ohlins suspension ? :smt017

first i think i was on kw's and later on some very special bilstein's....at least that was the info on their website..

lighter engine componets
full exhaust
wheels
brakes
seats
the number came up on the scale where the car was corner balanced.

still to go is the roof 28kg's and the back of the rear seat 11kg's...

can't get rid of the insulation or the windows...

and the number for the csl that you gave me is with a driver...( if you can a 68kg a driver!!!:hahaha: )

sorry did not "catch" the joke...

Yes, the racing one...

It's not 1460kg, it's 1385kg with driver and luggage.
Hypothetically, 'mine' should be 1300 with full tank (without me inside) at this moment.

Where is the Gorilla when you need him ?
Do you have any 'real' figures ?

is the clubsport, Nitron sport+ , 1K2 "race" suspensions???? i don't think so..maybe i am wrong but please explain better on this...

i did not ask for someone to give the settings on the plate here...
i ask to make a comment on the behavior of the suspensions on the road based on their experience....

depending on the car's behavior from it's understeer or oversteer how the wheel's come of the line how it does handles bumps and yaps i would go and set it at my personal preference...

I need feedback of how the chassis behaves with the suspension and how everybody who uses a kit of them is feeling the car....

I said i don't want it to be harsh and feel crashy and gives the bottomed out feeling all the time ...i want it to feel hard, stiff, firm, almost noise-less...i am talking about ride quality...

i am not thinking moton ohlins intrax. too much for my needs and possibly will never have the "pleasure" to properly use them

i want a step up from what i currently have on the car.a step up from medium range coils.i would like single adjustable but the most i would go is clubsport....

I wish you go for the ohlins kit. you used to drool over them a long time ago when you were still in Athens.

Mine with 2/3 tank fuel, aircon and stereo on Intrax which is lighter than normal suspension was 1420kg with no driver. 1385 with driver and luggage is in the realms of fantasy I'm afriad.

I guess the official BMW M3 CSL brochure is WRONG then :smt017 as is the supplementary Owner's Handbook for the BMW M3 CSL, where it says, and I quote:

Weights

Kerb weight, ready for road, with 75 kg (165 lb) load, 90% fuel level, excluding optional extras ....... kg (lb) 1460 (3219) :whistle:

Where are you getting your numbers from mate ?
Picture of the 'real' figures below :whistle:

:thumbs: