First Trackday
 

Just signed up to do my first track day October ,,?? Would you recommend new brake disc with pads , or better to just use the old oem disc I have with new pads . ,, also will do brake fluid,... Will old disc ‘s be up to the job with a novice?? Also Csl wheels or best to use std m3 wheels and tyres , cheeping on tyres etc,, Any other tip welcome.:smokin: Chad

Brake fluid - Castrol SRF - MUST Change, or you will get brake fade, which at best will mean restricted laps after a heart-stopping moment (when pedal goes to floor) or at worst an expensive off.
Pads - Pagid RS29 all round - See above.
Discs - Kill existing ones. Standard ones should last if heat managed.
Tyres - Go with the ones Billy has on 18" standard BMW M3 wheels. They're cheap (especially going down to 18s) and very grippy (make sure you monitor pressures to ensure they don't overheat).

Don't trail brake or brake gently for long distances or you will overheat the brakes. Keep the braking hard and short.

The chassis is a peach, you will have an amazing time :). Which track?

As above 100%, standard M3 / CSL brakes are chocolate!

Castrol SRF is mega, I use that myself, expensive though!

RS29 are brilliant, if not Ferodo DS1.11 which is what I use in my BBK on the CSL now, they are superb too.

The CSL is so much fun on track, the chassis is superb and always feels so planted, what tyres you planning to use?

If you are doing loads of track days a square setup is good, though I still like the car on 19's tbh

Thanks guys. Will definitely do brake fluid,, was toying with useing my original 19 wheels that came on the car std m3 type ,,with some part used pilot sport still have a good tread 5or 6 mm ,,, they just a couple of years old ,,to save csl wheels the abuse ,, looking like I’d better up the pads then ::banghead: not sure budget will rid to some proper cups at the moment,, track Anglesey 2oct

19" tyres are expensive, so just go with the Pilot Sports. They are okay on track, but won't offer the grip or longevity of the Cups (by that I mean, they will overheat and go "off" sooner as well as not offering the same grip levels). You will probably get 4-5 laps each outing (before a cooling period will be required), which is about what the brakes will do as well :).

I thought you had the 18" OEM M3 wheels, where the Zestino tyres Billy uses are relatively cheap (just over £130 each).

Dam Just checked tyres , they are contisportcont5 ssr255/35r19y 6mm tread on them,, ??any body used these and what are they like...they Came off my lads merc ,, seem to remember track experience I went on with my younger lad, c63 s used contisport. And seemed ok ??? Trying to save some pennies :whistle: as I guess they will be trashed after,, was planning to fit them on bmw 10 double spoke wheels I got on car ,same size rear tire ,,

You'll be sliding all over the place :hahaha:.

They are VERY pressure sensitive, so will feel really boaty with too much air in.

Had these on a mate's Z4M at the 'ring (as that was what were on the car when he bought it :hahaha: ), and they felt like they were trying to kill us until the pressures we right.

thanks mike,guess them tyres will have to do for a spare tire /wheels :banghead: Depending on funds will think about a set of proper cups ,, or just two new rear pss on csl wheels :smokin: Already getting Expensive hobby this track day lark:banghead:

First track day,propably wouldn’t bother changing much,fluid maybe,Rs 29s maybe,but Perfomance friction are half the price,decent tyres will last you all day and the trip home,when you get the hang of it,start up rating stuff,but first time,I don’t think its really needed,just enjoy the day,you won’t be setting any pole times,IMHO of course,but what do I know ;)

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs: Just enjoy, once done you will be upgrading every thing.

Bit of useless information,,don’t know if anybody remembers bmw used to spec some track brake pads for the csl ,,no longer available :banghead: thanks for all the information tips

As far as i am concerned and according to the german M-forum they were nothing but rebranded Pagids RS 19's but with street legality in germany but with double the price tag :whistle:

I would just buy them directly, i heard nothing but praise about the successor of the successor, called Pagid RSL.
I run RS29, so the successor of the RS19 since a couple years, they work very well with the stock calipers. However they are a bit noisy (squealing and rattling).

SO true! I dread to think how many mods i've done to mine :clown:

You'll be fine on those, I'd drop the pressures out of them and run them at something like 30psi hot.

You won't have the same grip as Cups or Cup2, and they will probably go off quicker, but you'll still have fun, just trash them and go home happy!

thanks for advice. I will get these put on the wheels and try them this wk ,, see how they feel at 30 psi” ish. Hopefully get some new pilot sport or cups Really didn’t want to spend a fortune 1st track day. But also didn’t want to be on the edge, will do castrol srf brake fluid this wk ,, been looking at pads dam expensive ,, front and rear. Doesn’t seem any change from £500 Don’t think I’ll be doing these ,, ma have to just run normal new Textar street pads I already have this time, bed them in this wk with new fluid,see how they feel :whistle: as noted other post don’t think I’ll be going for a lap record :smokin:

I haven't been to Angelsy, so I don't know what it is like on brakes, but if you don't change the pads, it could potentially ruin your day. I once put in a brand new set of Pagid street pads in my S2000 (as I couldn't get RS29s in time, and the existing ones were getting low) and in the first 20 minutes of being on track at Bedford, they were down to 2mm off the backing plates (giving me some heart-stopping moments with the pedal going to the floor - despite the SRF fluid). Luckily I brought the worn RS29s with me and was able to fit those and finish the day with no issues.

So with road pads, you could find that your day would be cut dramatically short and would be a loss of the best part of the day where you were sitting on the sidelines WISHING you had fitted proper pads...... I can't express enough how braking on track is so much different than the road.

You can get extended life out of your investment by refitting the road pads for street use and only using the RS29s for track, but I find that I get so used to the braking performance of them, I can't bring myself to go backwards :hahaha:.

Chad,

Deffo do the pads, the standard ones are like chocolate, you'll probably get fade or ruin your discs with deposit as they will just smear.

If you can't stretch to RS29's then get the PFC (Performance Friction), they are a lot cheaper than the RS29 and a worthy upgrade over OEM pads.

They are cheap too:

https://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod1...46-M3--E36-M3/

https://www.design911.co.uk/fu/prod1...1--Z4-M-COUPE/

Ferodo DS1.11 are as good as RS29, cheaper than RS29, but more expensive than PFC:

https://www.rosssport.com/Brands/FER...et-FERFCP1073W

Thanks again guys. Better get some decent pads then ,, I’m presuming are all good with oem disc’s. Q will track pads trash my new disc’s As old front disc’s are on the limit of wear ,, obviously would prefer to trash old disc’s,, I realise mike said kill old disc’s.. I’m taking onboard all this information and advice chaps thanks. Chad,,, Off to bank to check my bank balance :banghead:

Defo kill the old discs if they are near the end of their life :).

Regarding the PF pads, I have used them in the past and they are great (with one proviso). Do NOT under ANY circumstances leave the brake dust on the car / wheels to allow them to get wet and allow the dust to rust. They have a high metal content and will weld themselves on to the car/wheels, making it extremely difficult to remove :banghead:. As soon as you get home, wash the brake dust off IMMEDIATELY.

Apologies Chad for the thread hijack but i am in a very similar boat!
First track day coming up on 17th Sept at Castle Combe and have Silverstone booked for 25th Nov.
My current brake setup is Front KSport big brake kit with EBC Bluestuff pads
Porsche/Brembo rear 4 pot caliper conversion. MPSS tyres fitted. Thoughts for my up coming days aprreciated also :thumbs:

Kev

You haven't mentioned fluid?

Doh ..... Currently running with ATE TYPE 200.

:thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

Well put it this way, the wet boiling point of Castrol SRF is within a few degrees of the dry boiling point of the above.......

Understood ! Do you think a first timer / novice will have a problem? Change regardless?

My castrol srf arrived yesterday cheapest I could find £49 inc delivery. Will run this through to the lines this weekend. As I’ve got a full set new oem brake hose lines Will probably fit these at the same time ,,, :smokin:

It depends how hard you or the circuit are on brakes. Given that you could crash the car if the fluid boils (leading to a loss of pedal) or at the very least have a heart stopping moment, I don't think that it is worth skimping on for the sake of £49.

To me it is worth it for piece of mind and the prevention of turtle head moments :hahaha: :bigcry:.

I also don't like EBC pads (having had bad experiences of them years ago), but they may have improved since then. I don't think they belong on a car of this value :blalalala:.

I'm with Mike on this one, over the years i've tried all kinds of fluid, AP, ATE Super Blue, Motul RBF600 etc.

I have had that moment myself years ago in my old E46 M3, pedal to the floor due to boiled fluid, nearly crashed, I absolutely cacked my pants, honestly thought I was a goner.

SRF is by far the most consistent, I've used it in all my cars for years, ideally it needs changing every year to keep it at it's best.

EBC pads are shocking, they melt, I had a set of rear EBC yellow in my old i8, I managed to melt them after 1 track session at Bedford, I can't even sell them for £5 on eBay as no one will bid, not much better compound than a OEM pad imo.

Good stuff mate, I'd probably say bleed all of the litre bottle through to make sure the old fluid is out, especially with new hoses.

I re-did my brakes on the weekend as i've just changed my calipers again to something else :clown:

Make sure you wd40 your bleed nipples (ooer) the night before, as they are notorious for siezing up. :thumbs:

Its plenty fine, sure castrol SRF has a higher boiling point.. but you need to change it annualy compared to the ATE which is fine with 2-3 years.


Also the boiling points are rather close.

# ATE Super Blue Racing: 280°C
# Castrol SRF Racing: 303°C


I've been using ATE for a few years now with pagid pads and i never had issues. Only that the paint on my calipers have become gold :hahaha::gayfight:

Cheers guys:beer:, due to time restrictions it looks like I will have to run with current set up this monday 17th at Castle Combe, but guess I will be taking it even more steady than I would of been!
I totally agree with not scrimping when it comes to brakes and would happily pay for the right set up. My problem is, as a novice i genuinely don't / didnt know!
I assume you get some warning / pedal going soft if fluid is boiling !?
All of a sudden it seems like i am going to be the one in the more expensive car being passed by cheaper cars etc this time :banghead: (more happy to be on the limit!) The other track days i have done have been in a clio cup & mx5 turbo, so much lighter cars and much lower value !
Any other tips or info gladly received
:thumbs:

My point was, that you are not skimping by using ATE. Its perfectly fine to use.


BTW. ATE Super Blue Racing = ATE TYPE 200


Saying that you are skimping on fluid when using ATE 200, is like saying you are skimping by using steel brake discs instead of full carbon ones.

That is the dry boiling points - now quote the wet boiling points for each one :blalalala:.

# ATE Type 200 Racing: Wet boiling point 198°C
# Castrol SRF Racing: Wet boiling point 270°C

As to changing SRF annually that is a total fallacy - I have had mine in the S2000 for 2 years, in the Escort for 3 years and in the CSL for 3 years, with no drop off at all (but then if you look at the wet boiling point, you will see why that is :blalalala: ;) ). You're more likely to need to change any OTHER fluid more frequently due to the reduced wet boiling point figures, where the SRF remains temperature stable for FAR longer.

You will get some warning as the pedal will start to get spongy just before the full-on to the floor moment. Just come in at that point (doing a full cool down lap). By this I mean at 70-80mph for airflow, using the brakes as little as possible.

If you are a proper beginner, read this for some basic guidelines:
http://www.randbmotorsport.co.uk/sho...kday_guide.asp

I was told that it reads 18 Months interval on the bottle due to some chemicals in the SRF that start to wear seals etc.

Never had any issues at all :)

Thought I’d better take the advice:thumbs: ordered front pagid rs29 pads or is it rsl 29 Now, From well know dealers, hopefully stretch to some rears next wk when hopefully back in stock,, Buy the time I get some tyres! could have had a week in the med :whistle:

If nothing else, it will give you the confidence and piece of mind that the ONLY thing you have to worry about / concentrate on is your driving :thumbs: :smokin: :supz:

I've got lucky in that Merlin Motorsport (located at Castle Combe) keep Castrol srf in stock !
Any tips if i were to change on the day? Is 1 litre enough to bleed through?

. Cheers mike , Yes your right .... Just ordered online,a pair of pss4s 265/30/19 quick fit mobile service. £368 , seems a good price ,, if I decide to use csl wheels,, couldn’t get a deal on cups ,, not sure what these will be like on track , ??