1385 Inc driver and luggage :hahaha:

My CSL was 1405kg on the scales at Simpson in full fat configuration (all options & rear seats fitted). It had 1/2 tank fuel iirc.

alexk - do you now weigh only 30kg? :hahaha:

Mine as set up by Simpson's:

Xexon headlamps, A/C, Business radio/CD,
AP's, SS BB & centre section, Intrax.
3/4 tank of fuel
No driver
1394kg's

Before mods mine was 1425kg's with similar fuel load, no driver.

Out of interest, my previous well specified E46 M3 with SMG was 1592kg's with similar fuel load, no driver.

Both times the CSL was on the scales with my small tool kit in the boot, so you could probably take at least 5kg's off those weights.

I think your biggest weight savers on your CSL Rob are the SS middle & Light weight RACE back box. 15-20 kg saved right there over O.E. :thumbs: and possibly the KW suspension with lighter springs & shocks, so probably another 10 kg saved there, over O.E. :beer:
At a guess, the A/C system probably ads about 25 kg to the "No Options" 1460 kg CSL ... the Xenons no more then 5 kg, the Comfort screen no more then 1-2 kg, the PDC no more then 2 kg and the Stereo with speakers probably around 5 kg. Anyone know the exact ' real ' kg figures for all the above ?

I'd say AP's save 1 or 2 kg's per corner as well. Very useful as un-sprung weight.

the lowest i got my car to for Spa was 1334kg without driver and low on fluids (car, not me)

Very true :smt045 I knew I forgo something ;)

Lee

Few Questions in response to your post ?

Where did you get hold of the 3 - Way KW kit ? These are NOT off the shelf and are full race kits so need a proper set up, i.e KW wont sell you one unless:
1. You already know what your doing ( race team etc )
2. Or have advised you as to where to take it to get it set up correctly

So I assume you brought this kit directly from a dealer, who should of done it ?

I assume the german KW dude you were referring too is Mitch ?

Who did you speak to if at all re set up of the kit ?

I can highly recommend AMD in Essex who set up my Non standard Clubsport Kit, this kit was hand built in the factory with some 3-way race kit parts and springs, and needed a proper set up which AMD did. ( They race in the BTCC on KW's currently )

I tweaked about with the spring rates and had Raeder Motorsport next to the ring do a bit of fettling and yes it took me a while to get it perfect and how I wanted it, but now it's perfect.

The other place that know and understands KW is ThorneyMS , now they dont use KW anymore but the knowledge in the kits and cars doesn't evaporate just because they dont stock it anymore, they raced on and sold KW 's for years, and highly recommended them at the time, as they did when I wanted a kit, and did my original set up on first kit which was a V3 ( to be honest probably the best kit for me needs ) and it was an awesome set up that TMS did, so there is two that I know off that fully understand KW in the UK already :whistle:

Aircon is circa 12-15kg, Xenons 4kg I believe.

ehm....sorry guys

any more input on the suspensions????

come on...i know you got lighter cars....:thumbs:

i wanna hear some more pleaaaase!!!!!:beer:

OEM

its not want you want to hear but its the truth:thumbs:

Sorry I cant help I have got a Cayman 1435 kilos stock with half a tank of juice :smokin:

Yeah sure, but what about if it had 90% fuel and you in it ? :whistle:

It's also fully loaded with ICE and the latest disco tunes.:smokin:;)

aahhh hate you for your weight...but in a straight line...sorry....!!!!:thumbs:

really its not...hahahaha!!!

waiting reply for simpson motorsport also.....!!!
is the coilover in the rear that much problem???

i asked for the second choice - trackday....:whistle:

Nope, unless you have a cage in the car :hahaha:


Guys, your scales are out of order !
I need to take the car to Sportec to weight it, in a proper Swiss scale.

Nick - have you considered Bilstein PSS10 at all? It's a really good compromise between track and a fast B road. :thumbs: PSS10 is Perfect for a fast B road really.

Rear coilovers can crack the rear turret metal work. Choices are;

1. Cage linking turrets
2. Rear strutt brace (solid pref)
3. BMW Z3 reinforcement plates
4. Welded thickening plates.

Even though item 4 is a good option you've got to think 'what happens if you need to take the car to BMW for subframe/floor cracks so I woul rule it out. Solution needs to be reversible.

I used 2 & 3 together. A few guys gave had bad turret cracking.

AST non rear coil over is working well for me, but if it's not for track OEM can't be faulted

What benefit's does the KW Clubsport/Intrax 1K2 etc kit actually give over OEM suspension?

Is it just a case that body roll is reduced or can you genuinely feel the improved bump/rebound etc in the kit/strut?

Dan

Depends where you are driving and what geo one is running

My guess thru trying both I'd that on A& B roads in UK the OEM will give you a better ride, better grip.

Face facts in that BMW built the suspension to run the ring as fast as possible. I personally doubt on road Tyres and geo a/m suspension will be any better.

Well matt i would say with a full tank and me 1545kgs carn't be certain till i get down to ikea and get new scales;)

custom built by KW in germany and shipped to me...

Michael Grassl.

Cheers, might give them a try. Yes, Raeder Motorsport got a look in too :-)

You mention AMD and Thorney, but are we talking M3/CSL here ?

Essentially my evo is akin to a prototype with regards the amount of knowledge out there. Custom this and custom that, nothing with a mitsi badge on it anymore.....

http://www.projectevo.co.uk/gallery2...2/DNA_2026.jpg

The kit was built to a spec designed by Michael taking into account overall weight, front/rear split, tyre sizes and compound, intended use etc.

Interestingly their recommended settings are damn good. From that point if I soften it up I lose high speed stability and stiffening it reduces traction. Textbook stuff.

Certain tuners/companies know certain cars. Nitron are massive in lotus circles, not so much on evo...KW were one of the few who have actually had experience of racing the damn things :-)

Comp 3-ways are not for the wallet conscious though !

I'd like to disagree with that statement please :-)

Car manufacturers face an almost impossible task with regards to the performance aspect. They have to consider a great many factors that aftermarket do not.

1. Will these uprated parts last ie avoid warranty issues...
2. Parts have to be put through various approval processes for domestic market (check a lot of aftermarket parts, they mention track or off-road, not street legal necessarily...)
3. Parts need to be made in reasonable quantity and speed. Hand-assembled might not be the way forwards and costs need to be kept down.
4. Parts need to be put through stringent testing for safety purposes etc
5. Parts need to be designed for minimal maintenance and quite possibly some neglect.

When you buy a suspension kit aimed at track use you don't get much of a warranty to be honest. If a coilover broke and you lost your car into the armco good luck pursuing that claim. If your coilovers need rebuilding every 2 years, that goes with the territory. Expect to have to keep them far cleaner than a daily shitter etc.

All I'm saying is that in general it is a mission for oem to produce something that is totally focussed, its always a compromise.

I have an internal training document for the Porsche GT2 RS. When you read through some of the stuff they do on these cars, you look at the build quality and attention to detail its just amazing. End result, sell a lung to buy one. You're not buying £165 of tin, you're contributing £100k+ to the entire R&D project that got you there.

We now only use Moton on all our cars, CSL Cup, E92 GT3, Gallardo. We offer Nitron as well on the Csl as a cheaper alternative. Whilst there is an element of sponsorship from Moton on the race cars we pay for all of it. We've not needed to rebuild any Moton shock in three years.

Which bit are you disagreeing with? You see to be talking about something else!

On a proper track on a road car a/m suspension has a little scope for improving speed BUT on the Ring I stand by my statement OEM suspension will be as good.

I've not seen anybody beat the official 7m50 full lap time of a CSL which wa set on OEM

Coz were not professional race drivers who drive the Ring for a living :bigcry:

I'm with Shimmy on this one :smt023 ... even a well used O.E.M. CSL suspension works a treat around the Green Hell (aka The Ring) :whistle: ... not too cleaver around Spa though :bigcry:

... in somebody else's cars :thumbs: plus we never get an empty RING to ourselves :bigcry: as much as we'd like to ;) :hahaha:

WHORE! :hahaha:

:smt003 I THANK You Sir :blalalala:

i haven't decided yet....

but the thing is, if the stock is so damn good why do people go on to change their suspensions?

doesn't a proper a/m suspension gives better handling and more firm ride than stock ?

a several thousand suspension offers what exactly?

besides talking away the 4wheel drive look ( bling matters for something..) what else is there??

It's called "wear & tear" :banghead: BMW Warranty only covers suspension parts up to 60 000 miles / 100 000 kms ... after that it's "BMW Good Will" but that rarely goes through on suspension components these days :bigcry:
The cost of replacement O.E. CSL suspension is almost the same as a decent after market suspension kits so most owners go for a/m suspension kits as it offers better adjustibility + in some cases the a/m kits can be rebuild after a few years use, unlike the O.E. stuff that just gets bind :smt087
BTW the O.E. CSL suspension is quite firm as standard, even with a few miles/kilometres on them :thumbs: and lower doesn't automatically mean better :whistle:

looking to sell something mate????:hahaha:

i am so darn confused here....

first the club-sport
then the Nitron sport+
now the moton 1 way ....( keep reading reviews from people in the us how awesome this kit is and how well it drives and handle!!!!! )

Jesus Christ !!!!!!!!!!!!!:banghead::banghead::banghead::banghe ad::banghead:

and the thing is that everybody has different opinions on what someone should get....

the more i read and try to compare the kits, the more confused i get....

and the money are quite a bit too....
i am going to spend another 2k++ for a new suspension and don't want to get something i won't like at the end....

because they can!:smokin:

of course there are benefits from a/m suspension, best of all is the amount of tyre wear it saves you on fast tracks by preventing the body roll onto the tyre edges

but of your aim is mainly to do the Ring i personally dont think there will be any improvement on a CSL. probabaly the opposite (Rob seems to be getting slower :whistle:)

You're getting handling advice form the U.S. Guys ??? :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha: No wonder you're confused :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha:

yet you got your self an intrax if i remember right?

you said i am going to ignore your advice on the stock suspension ( which i am trying to do ) but the car is no csl...
i don't know if the csl suspension is going to work properly with almost 80-100kg more weight to transfer....

there si abosolutley no doubt in my mind that OEM CSL suspension is the best road option BY FAR. Then again the M3 suspension is probabaly better than that on road :smokin: