Great observation :thumbs: I feel much better now but still I wouldn't buy one even if I had £100K to spank on a NEW toy, which I don't, before U lot ask :blalalala:

Interesting looking suspension set-up - looks very very similar to my KW Clubsport kit fitted to my car - even down to the yellow springs! :whistle:

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/3498/springdo.jpg

Wheels look familiar too... :hahaha:

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/464/wheeley.jpg

Love the cage - you could still get a few bags in there too :thumbs:

http://img26.imageshack.us/img26/7997/cagep.jpg

I think BMW has already indicated sub 7:40s for this thing - so definitely quicker than the CSL.

Also I do think it's quite an achievement - they've actually taken out more weight on this thing (about 200kg vs the E92 M3) compared to the weight lost on the CSL to the E46 M3.

Love this thing!!

For once I think BMW's finally done the thing that everyone's been wanting them to do:
- proper brakes (fixed caliper monoblocks)
- fully adjustable suspensions (height, damper and rebound)
- full aero (personally opinion whether it's ugly or not)
- Titanium muffler
- roll bar (ala GT3 clubsport pack)
- fire extinguisher (for snob value)
- proper bucket seats and harness (ala GT3 clubsport)

It has all the right boxes ticked, yet the enthusiasts still complains - come on .. this is more of a club racer than the CSL ever was ... now imagine if only the CSL had came out without those things!! Wohooo

Wouldn't surprise me if it indeed was the KW clubsport kit or a modification of it. The specs sounds about the same.

Hot M3 £100kish

Legendary 360 Challenge Stradale £85 to £90k

No contest IMO no way on gods earth will it be £75k better than the awesome CSL, let alone a Strad:thumbs:

+1


Let's clarify...

M3 GTS = 3 x CSL ?

er, no.

Very well put.

I'll bet the same things were being said when the CSL was first released... overpriced... not enough power... not enough weight loss...

Nicely hardcore IMHO, and if you're the sort of guy who runs a GT3 as a track-car (and whose mates probably do too) it makes a nice alternative :thumbs:

You all moaned when BM said they'd not do a new CSL... this is a CSL+ :smokin:

I am not sure that's a 'CSL'.
The brakes, suspension, cage and seats are obvious.
Does it has any special parts like the CSL ? Bumper, trunk etc etc etc ?
Maybe yes, maybe not. We don't know yet I guess.
It seems like it's something 'quick and dirty', when looking the front spoiler and rear spoiler. So, I am not sure (I could be wrong) if the car has everything, everything changed.
The rear spoiler is the ones we see in Fast n Furious and we are laughing.
The CSL cup cars have nicely made HUGE spoilers and they look awesome.

That doesn't make it a bad car.
I think it's a good car but it's clear that BMW targets in new customers, not the traditional BMW owner.

I only wish they had these brakes in our CSL, because I am having issues with the MOT of Switzerland.

If its a limited production run car, then the cost per car is bound to be higher when taking in r&d, safety compliance etc

CSL = 6x e36 M3 er, no, silly argument - look at what it is up against new...

it is €30k cheaper than a GT3RS in Germany, let's see what the UK pricing works out like...

but they don't have to pass type approval...

Credit to BMW, they'd made an extreme version of the M3, more extreme than the CSL, I think it is awesome, a 2 seater, caged M3 with adjustable suspension and decent brakes, less weight and a bigger engine :smt055

Wait until the tuners get hold of that 4.4 too - 500+ bhp :thumbs:

only problem i have with the car is that it seems more like a road version of a GT4 made just so that it can be made into race cars by BMW and not designed for road use or sale in particular (unlike GT3 and RS)

the add ons look aftermarket at best even down to the seat which look like bog standard recaros you can get for less than the CSL seat

If all these mods are aftermarket items why should thye be charging £100k even if that is what it cost to produce due tot he limited numbers

The engine obviously has been increased in capacity once again just soi they can race that engine capacity and not becasue the road car needs the exra 0.4litres just to get 30bhp.

Lets not forget current M3 is £51k OTR whereas the GTS is DOUBLE THAT

Wait and see on the pricing, there are rumours of it being less than that in the UK. It is €30k less than a GT3RS in Germany which would make it around £85k here if the pricing structure was similar, that is Gt3 money and I'd rather have this than a cooking GT3 (not that I can afford either).

Well said Nathan:thumbs:

As others seem to be mooting, I don't think that you can directly compare this with an E46 M3 CSL. These are totally different cars with several years of R&D and advances in technology between them. This is not being touted as the spiritual successor or 'son of CSL' after all...

Like others have also said, yes - you could take a standard E92 M3 and turn it into something very similar for probably less money, but that does not make it an M3 GTS/GT4 just like tuning or modifiying a Porsche 997 C2S does not make it a genuine Porsche 997 GT3... :whistle:

I do think that early indications of its 'proposed price' do seem a tad on the steep side, but that said, i would certainly be very very interested in such a rare car when it is 3 years old and has shed a big amount of value, making it a superb track focussed bargain! :supz:

This spoiler has to pass approval. Have a look at it ->
http://www.2405.com/press-photograph...era-2007-e.jpg


I was showing the GTS to family member today and was telling me that they run like crazy in BMW AG, because of the competition (Audi, Mercedes).
This car was 'cooked' in no-time.
It's clear that most of the obvious bits of the car are 'quick and dirty'.

Does anybody remember that the CSL was introduced in 2001 and brought to the public in 2003 ? Is that 2 years ?

Don't see your point with the gallardo one? it is smaller than the M3 one and has no end plates

I agree its a rush job to help them with racing GT4 i guess. Gives them a bigger engine to play with etc etc

My guess is it will be BMW Ag sale only and fixed one price and very limited run.

Dont forget for £50k you could do this power/weight change (apart from engine capacity) with a stock M3 and have change is my guess. Its not like you have the subbtle changes that the CSL had at first glance

I think this is the issue. I have no problem with a 100k BMW/M3-shaped track monster, but you would hope that the finished article looked more cohesive and as if it wasn't a Halfords parts bin special.

The enduring value of the CSL years later until today is that it is a fabulously well finished product that demonstrates the exceptional effort/thought/engineering that went into refining an already then-class-leading product. Demand for, and used values reflect this.

The CSL appeals like an expensive folded steel Japanese cooks knife, in the same way the GT3 is such a well refined, evolved, and cohesive design. The GTS is, in comparison, a very expensive Ikea plastic handled knife that although cheap looking, will be fit-for-purpose no doubt.

Buyers of 100k machinery want something that goes AND looks special.

if you remember the CSL was universally slated when it came out and it was massively overpriced and as such prices dropped 35% in the first 18 months, I don't see anything different with the GTS, once they are cheap enough everyone will fall in love with them as they did with the CSL.

maybe (probably) but for the prices to recover it has got to have something special and the only thing i can see is the exclusivity (as i guess there will be very very few made) and the engine choice

everything else you can buy from Unit 7, Roaring Meg Industrial Estate, Stevenage :whistle:

people said the same about the CSL, £20k more than an M3, it isn't even any faster, put those tyres on a normal M3 and you are 95% of the way there, there is nothing special about it etc etc.

Wait until there is some more information on how they've saved weight and what else has been done to it. Of course you could make a normal M3 faster for less money, same was true with the CSL too, the devil will be in the detail...

PS. Anyone know if the 7:40 time round the ring was with the tyres it has in the pictures? If it did that time on them then I'm amazed!

I thought the M3 CSL was only :hahaha: £20 000 more then the equivalent M3 Coupe :whistle:

Good summary.

Replacing plush interior with two 500 quid SPG's and a bolt in half cage, wing & splitter. Surely that costs next to nowt. Different glass ain't much either. Bigger capacity...ok but for 30 bhp?

This is no CSL! I am just relieved they didn't devalue CSL brand with this jumble sale tat.

Nathan,

There goes the 'competitor'. Check this rear wing.

http://www.globalmotors.net/wp-conte...911-gt2-rs.jpg


The CSL was the first 'normal' vehicle that had a carbon roof, carbon interior, carbon bumper, carbon intake.
It had many differences over the standard M3.
It was well-thought and engineered to make a difference.
The CSL was a pioneer in extreme 'normal' cars, that's why the press attacked it.

Did we see the GTS in any major car-show ? NO
Why ? Isn't it obvious that they were in a rush ?
It doesn't even have a different front bumper.

I know that many people will love it (maybe they will sell 50 of these) and track it.
But we are forgetting that we are in 2009 and not 2002.

Back in 2002 there were no extreme 'normal' cars like the CSL.
Competition (Mercedes black series, Audi R8, Nissan GTR) has lifted the baseline.
There are cars today like the Renault R26R (I might have the code wrong) which is a track weapon.
Was there any car with removed sound insulation, AC, radio etc etc ?
And where was BMW today ? NOWHERE.
After so much pressure, they offered as an add-on brembo brakes for 1 and 3 series (for the small engines).
Now they remembered that they can put brembo brakes in M models !!!
We consider this as extreme, when an alfa romeo mito has brembo brakes !!!

i think that is what BMW thought as well.

TonyR is taking his E92 road car and my guess he will get a better and faster car than the GTS spending less than £20k

now that is nice ... agree this is not a CSL equiv ... probably helps us lot TBH as you dont really want a CSL version on every incarnation of the 3 series M as it will devalue the whole CSL brand.

Reckon another 2/3 or more models in the CSL may appear by then ours would be a proper old school legend .. and I will be as bald as a coot :hahaha:

I don't see what difference it makes if it has been in a car show or not, this thing will rape an e46 CSL round a race track whilst being completely under warranty and having a power to weight ratio up there with the GT3RS of this world, the fact that it has a unique engine capacity in the range for homologation purposes makes it more special. Even the 320si has a special feel about it knowing that it is directly linked to the motorsport program, this takes that and multiples it IMO.

The press attacked the e46 csl because it was 20k more than a normal M3, wasn't much faster and had rubbish steering feel and marmite gearbox, there were other cars at the time that were just as hardcore (Impreza Spec C as an example, or GT3RS was around the same time too). Over time the press seemed to do a huge u turn on them as they realised how special they actually were.

Matt - it was £20k more, when a basic M3 was only £39k, I got mine 18 months old with 3.5k miles on it for £40k and I paid a few grand over the odds as I had a Noble to part ex which was a nightmare as no one wanted it.

Please don't tell me it needs a 'special bumper and boot' to be a CSL? :hahaha:

Indeed, spend £5k on dampers, £4k on brakes, £5k on the engine, £5k on the interior and £3k on wheels and tyres and you probably would be faster but you wouldn't have a warranty and it'd be a nightmare to insure. no different to the people that said you could make a normal M3 faster than a CSL for less than the £20k difference ;)

BUT Nathan we are talking about saving £30k off the £100k and having a car that is better, NOT spending £20k on a car that is still 10% worse

It all hinges on whether BMW have put real TIME AND VALUE into the GTS like they did wiht the CSL or whether they have rushed out an M3 with some easy mods to get their motorsport programme back on track now that they are out of F1

THis does not have the class of the finish of a £100k car imho but it may well go like shit off a shovel. They are two sepoerate things:smokin:

I like the look of it though, guess that is my inner chav coming out :gayfight:

Hi,

I think BMW are starting to become the
Architects of their own down fall.

You can purchase a really nice CSL now for
Circa 25K +/-.

You can also purchase a very low mileage S65
engine complete with ECU etc, for around 3-5k +/-.

5k for Cams, Uprated airbox and exhaust.

A E60 M5 7 speed manual box as fitted to the North American
M5 as an option would be around 3k. [same bolt pattern]

1.5k for the clutch

4 Way Intrax, Drexler rear Diff, and the KK Trick
rear axle and Grp A front arms around 20k all in.

Wheels and uprated bearings etc 3k

Allow 5 k for ECU Upgrade and Dyno

Allow say 15k to fit, sort, test and set it all up.

Allow salvage on parts sold say 5k.

Sub 75k and you would be well in super Car territory
with something around 475/500 BHP that can do
a Ring lap in around 7.10/7.12 and still be able
to drive it on the road.

The BMW E46 V8 ALMS test mules were lapping the
Ring in around 7.10 /7.12 back in 2000/2001.

You can buy a S/H E92 M3 circa 30k today, and
25k spent on that in the right areas would put
a very big smile on a good drivers face.

I believe what this proves is that 75-100k has the ability
to deliver something far above what BMW are offering
for the same money.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

now THIS you would pay £100k for

http://cornerbalance.files.wordpress...009-729191.jpg

Did anyone watch the M3's maiden win (over the Porsche RSR) in FIA GT2 (Asian LMS) at Okayama this past weekend? :supz:

It finished the 3 hour race just 1 lap behind the FIA GT1 class winning Lambo!

imagine how it will do with 10% capacity increase.

I don't know where you get the 100,000 k price tag from

The BMW M3 GTS will be made-to-order and the price is expected to be EUR 115,000.- for delivery in Germany, including 19% VAT. (approx. £100,000 at today’s exchange rate, although both the 911 GT3 and M6 Coupe are priced at EUR 116,000 in Germany and subsequently both are priced at around £84,000 in the UK).

I would be very surprised if its is over £85,000 in the UK

Uhhhhhhh yeah :drool: :drool: :drool: Sign me up

:hahaha::hahaha::hahaha::hahaha::hahaha::hahaha:

ii think you answered your own question there

my guess is that it will be very limited numbers, maybe LHD only as i think it is just for racing justification

Thye might just sneak it under £100k but with the va bback to 17.5% maybe not

[quote=alexk;34780]http://www.globalmotors.net/wp-conte...911-gt2-rs.jpg

It is nice - LOVE THOSE RED WHEELS :smt047 :smt047

BTW Dazza - it's pronounced 'old skool' and you are already bald as a coot :whistle: :smt044 :smt044

Thank you please :clown:

Time will tell Nathan as you've pointed out.

I don't believe this car was ever intended to be a CSL.

Yes the CSL is special - but a lot of the 'positives' about it only came about a couple of years after people realised and appreciated it for what it really is (some of it helped no doubt by the more civilised E9X M3).

That time was on the prototype apparently.

200kg isn't that easy to save - so I suspect there's probably more to it.

Also there's a mention in the article about the rear axel mount - appears to be different to the standard car.

No doubt BMW's using this as a plateform for their GT4 racing program - heck this to me makes it even more special - at least this car has some 'racing' lineage unlike the CSL which is basically a technological show pony (don't get me wrong I love the CSL for what it is, but it is not in the same league as a factory produced club racer) - If the CSL was the forefather of modern BMW factory specials (not counting the E30 M3 Sport Evolution), then the M3 GTS is simply the bastard child it had with a racecar :hahaha:

You aren't comparing apples with apples - we can go on about modified cars and I too can say for way less money you might as well supercharge a 2001 E46 M3 and it'd run rings around a lot of things .... with all due respect, I do think some of you are missing the point of this car ...

This is probably in similar league as the E46 M3 GTR road version that was never really meant to be ... overpriced, built for homologation ... never sold (well not beyong 2 digits) - I am sure you'd all go gaga if you saw one on the road today ... I am sure this GTS will be in the same league some what.

dont get me wrong, i am sure it will be rare and a collectors car for sure

i am sure i will lust after one especially a 302bhp/tonne

but it doesnt look like £100k road car to me