Vanos problem

[Niel333]

My car's Vanos was done by agents under warranty, it was nice and quiet for 1000kms/ 3months. Its now just as noisy as before and my warranty expires in 7 days. I took it back this morning and they dont have a problem in fixing it again but I am worried that there is a underlying problem thats causing the Vanos to fail and might cause damage to the engine in time to come, then I will be stuck with the cost!!!

Any advice would be much appreciated as it seems the agents dont know what they are doing and time is running out...

[shimmy]

My car's Vanos was done by agents under warranty, it was nice and quiet for 1000kms/ 3months. Its now just as noisy as before and my warranty expires in 7 days. I took it back this morning and they dont have a problem in fixing it again but I am worried that there is a underlying problem thats causing the Vanos to fail and might cause damage to the engine in time to come, then I will be stuck with the cost!!!

Any advice would be much appreciated as it seems the agents dont know what they are doing and time is running out...


Do you know what work they did to the vanos the first time? Replacement?

[cantfind1]

Either fit a new one including solenoid....or get a recon one from Dr Vanos in the states......only way to make sure...

[Niel333]

Do you know what work they did to the vanos the first time? Replacement?

From what i understand they did a vanos kit .... if that makes sense?
I will check on the invoice if I can find it...

[Niel333]

Either fit a new one including solenoid....or get a recon one from Dr Vanos in the states......only way to make sure...

Its under warranty, so I would want BMW to replace it, but if its not getting enough oil or something and its just going to last another 1000km then its no use

[Niel333]

Just checked, they replaced the vanos and did camgears...

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Sounds like you have a Vanos Oil Pressure
feed issue.

You can replace the Vanos, Solenoids and Cam Gears
all you like but if the Vanos Oil is not
correctly pressurising, then it will
not last 5 minutes.

Did they change the Vanos Oil Pressure
Limiting Valve and Vanos Oil Feed 'O'
Rings etc ?

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Niel333]

Hi,

Sounds like you have a Vanos Oil Pressure
feed issue.

You can replace the Vanos, Solenoids and Cam Gears
all you like but if the Vanos Oil is not
correctly pressurising, then it will
not last 5 minutes.

Did they change the Vanos Oil Pressure
Limiting Valve and Vanos Oil Feed 'O'
Rings etc ?

Regards,

The Gorilla.

The job description on the claim history is

1. Camshaft Adjusting unit
2. Gear wheels on camshaft broken
3. Pressure Accumulator (incl shut-off valve)

I just spoke to the technician that did the job the first time. He says they replace cam gears and vanos, tested the car and it was still noisy so they replaced the pressure accumulator and it was quiet.

Could it be that when they test drove it they damaged it again?

My biggest concern is that they damaged the motor or the cams and that I will be stuck with the problem when the warranty runs out?

[shane@mbtech]

Renew the warranty? I would.

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Quote-

''He says they replace cam gears and vanos, tested the car and it was still noisy so they replaced the pressure accumulator and it was quiet.''

I think that might be what has caused the
problem.

Sounds like your 'Replacement Vanos/Cam Gears'
were run without correct Oil Pressure.

Then the retrospective fitting of the Pressure
Limiting valve has made all well until their
premature wear, prior to its fitting, has put you back where you
were.

Does not take long to 'fook' them without
correct amount of oil and pressure.

Did they take a Vanos Oil Pressure reading ?

The other issue now is that if the oil feed
to the Vanos is or was restricted, and the
restriction is prior to the 'split' of this feed,
other side is to the Cams, then how long was the
engine run or tested in this condition ?

Even if it was for a few minutes only while
they diagnosed your Vanos noise, then your Top
end may well start rattling very quickly.

I would obtain some sort of undertaking on
the Valve Train given the issues over the
Vanos etc.

You certainly need to get it on the record.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Niel333]

Hi,

Quote-



Did they take a Vanos Oil Pressure reading ?

The other issue now is that if the oil feed
to the Vanos is or was restricted, and the
restriction is prior to the 'split' of this feed,
other side is to the Cams, then how long was the
engine run or tested in this condition ?

Even if it was for a few minutes only while
they diagnosed your Vanos noise, then your Top
end may well start rattling very quickly.

I would obtain some sort of undertaking on
the Valve Train given the issues over the
Vanos etc.

You certainly need to get it on the record.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

I dont think they took a reading before the first start.... They will do all the test now. They also dont have a problem with replacing anything that needs to be done to fix it now, but if they miss anything I will sit with the cost later. I will push to get cams, gears and vanos replaced now but if they dont then your undertaking sounds like the way to go if they agree to it.

[Niel333]

Renew the warranty? I would.

I wish I could but my car was sold on 21 April 2005 and 7 years is maximum....

[Niel333]

So apparently the oil presure is at 2bar while idling and 4.5 bar when revved but the cams and cambearings on my motor have scuff marks on them and are blue(whatever that means). They are taking the sump off today to see what the crank bearings look like...

Does any of this make sense? How did the cams get damaged while the oil pressure is fine?

[Mark CSL]

So apparently the oil presure is at 2bar while idling and 4.5 bar when revved but the cams and cambearings on my motor have scuff marks on them and are blue(whatever that means). They are taking the sump off today to see what the crank bearings look like...

Does any of this make sense? How did the cams get damaged while the oil pressure is fine?


Sounds like a new engine will be on the cards
If they are blue they have been running dry and over heating

[Niel333]

Sounds like a new engine will be on the cards
If they are blue they have been running dry and over heating

I hope so!!!! 2 year warranty on new engine:thumbs:

If the crank bearings looks good they are only going to order a new head, is it ok to replace parts on these engines, will it be the same again?

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

From the sounds of it you have had
a Top end Oil pressure issue.

I do not think you will see 2.5 Bar oil
pressure at tickover with engine Oil at 85 degs.

If there are any issues with the Main Bearings
then its screaming replacement engine.

Even 2.5 bar, tickover cold, suggests that
bottom end will be ok, BUT,

Blue is oil starvation, over heating, but its accelerated wear I
would be more concerned with.
Reason being is that the wear particles will contaminate
the oil which can then cause premature wear throught the engine.

If the top end wear is excessive and over a short period
then I would be seeking a replacement Long Block engine along
with anything to do with the Engine Oiling.

Fine metal filing contamination in 10/60 sythn oil at
7000 rpm will increase friction wear dramtically.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[shane@mbtech]

Agree re the metal bits floating round.

On my E55 AMG I had an engine issue/noise. Normal people wouldnt notice, it was there from day one.
Any way it turned out to be the oil pump chain rubbing v v slightly on timing case, it had worn a groove slightly.

I stood my ground and got a full engine. I think the bill was £29,000:hahaha:

They wanted to just change the chain and casing. NOPE,

[Niel333]

I am going there in the morning and I wont leave untill they agree to a new engine :moan:

[shimmy]

I hope so!!!! 2 year warranty on new engine:thumbs:

?

Parts only if supplied on goodwill but NO WARRANTY on warranty replacements.

[Niel333]

Parts only if supplied on goodwill but NO WARRANTY on warranty replacements.

I will just be happy with a new engine which seem likely after they removed the Mainbearings. They also have marks on them and are apparently a bit blue.

I got some pics hope it sort of shows what they talking about...

http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x462/nielnel333/IMG-20120418-00038.jpg
http://i1183.photobucket.com/albums/x462/nielnel333/IMG-20120418-00039.jpg

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

Hard to tell the extent of wear damage
from the pics, but you have had Oil pressure
issues for sure, and accelerated wear and
contamination comes with that territory.

Looks like top pic is mains ? smooth cap,
and lower picture is big end ? cracked cap.

If the Mains are marked which the top
picture suggests then the
Big ends [Conrods] will most certainly be fooked.

Your already pressing for a replacemnet
Long Block, so you can not do much more.

The fact you have the Pics, suggests that
they are not going to wriggle to much.

Best of luck.

Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Niel333]

They sent pics etc for new engine approval, Just waiting for a answer:wink:

[Niel333]

With 2 days of warranty left.....

[Mark CSL]

Have the removed the head ? was there any marks on the bores
the bores on my engine were in spec but looked like they were slapping at TDC

[DuncanR]

Particles in Head - block - sump of an M engine is automatic new one apparently.


Came across this http://forums.cfset.com/viewthread.php?tid=95961
... maybe some of our engines where included , 2003 builds perhaps ?

[Niel333]

Have the removed the head ? was there any marks on the bores
the bores on my engine were in spec but looked like they were slapping at TDC

No they havent, just camcover and sump.... what sort of noise did yours make, I could have sworn it was vanos again, it was the exact same sound

[Niel333]

[quote=DuncanR;111655]Particles in Head - block - sump of an M engine is automatic new one apparently.


I Hope BMW SA knows that!! Still waiting for approval...

[Niel333]

Came across this http://forums.cfset.com/viewthread.php?tid=95961
... maybe some of our engines where included , 2003 builds perhaps ?

I had a 2001 E46 M3 which had 2 engines replaced because of conrod bearings. 1 after that that was recalled for the same problem but was told apparently after middle 2002 it was rectified by the factory...

[Mark CSL]

No they havent, just camcover and sump.... what sort of noise did yours make, I could have sworn it was vanos again, it was the exact same sound

It sounded more like tappets were needing done they done the shimms
and started the car to take it off the ramp and it made the same noise
back on the ramp and stripped the nextday the shimms were out off spec
more investigating was done.

New Engine Its such an animal it comes from BMW in a cage :hahaha:

[Niel333]

New Engine Its such an animal it comes from BMW in a cage :hahaha:

:hahaha::hahaha:

[The Gorilla]

Hi,

The Rod bearing issue on the S54 was
engines built FEB 2001 to JUNE 2003.

S54 also came from the factory with different
size Conrod Bolts, the larger ones, which
in my opinion are the better version, are
only found on the real early S54 engines that
were built in 1999 and 2000 although they
sometimes appear in cars registered in 2001.

Its interesting that the S65 runs an almost identical
factory spec stretch Rod bolt as the smaller S54's
ones, and happily Rev's to 8400 without issue.

I'll bet the Flat Plane Crank in the P60 had some
special bolts fitted in those V8 Conrods for sure.

I have always run ARP in the S54's but does make
you think.

Back on thread, have you been supplied with a
loan Car or is your Warranty limited to Mechanical
repair and replacement parts only ?


Regards,

The Gorilla.

[Niel333]

Nope, no such luck. I dont know how your warranty works but in SA we buy the car with a 5yr 100000km/60000mile motorplan included in purchase price. It is a full maintanance plan that cover anything but tyres and topup oil(which is how the sell it). Its actually a sort of insurance and warranty doesnt cover much after the first 3 years except if a part or engine is replaced it carries a 2year warranty after replacement which is then covered by BMW

Motorplan can be extended with a maximum of 2 years, which is were I am now, and my car has 80000km/50000miles on the clock, so after replacement the engine carries a 2 year warranty

Loan cars is not a common thing around here, only within the first 6 months or so of purchase you will get a loan car....

[Mark CSL]

In the uk we get a loan car if the car needs the part for it to be safe to use :thumbs:

The last car i had was a brand new 520 TD

[Niel333]

In the uk we get a loan car if the car needs the part for it to be safe to use :thumbs:

The last car i had was a brand new 520 TD

We are very 3rd world over here, I will be lucky to get my "caged engine" in the next month. They replaced my diff and diff carrier and it took 2 months to get parts:moan:

If you dont have another car, you walk or rent one.

[Niel333]

We got the go ahead!!!! :thumbs: Enignie is on back order from Germany so probably a months wait!!!!