Gains CSL to CSL Cup cars!!!

[shimmy]

Can anybody list the gains that you get from turning a CSL road car to say a standard class CSL Cup car to a modified class CSL Cup car in terms of speed gain per change or modification.

To explain better say we take Snetterton where my vest time is circa 1m 21s and CSL Cup run circa 1m 15s. That's 6 seconds improvement or a 3 sec improvement to a standard class Cup car.

If it was my guess I would say firstly driving a cage race car would give me 1/2 sec due to mr letting go that slight restraint you have driving a road car on track. Then slicks with correct geo might be worth 1.5 secs.

Then what do diff, weight savings, exhaust, cat, manifold, cams, cage, suspension, wing, splitter, flat floor, diffuser all add individually

Anybody any thoughts.

[El_Gordo]

I think a lot of it is the simple fact is that the racers are driving slightly battered race cars and not their Pride and Joy. It also helps to know that the car you are driving isn't the same car that has to get you home that night and to work in the morning...

Also when racing you are constantly being judged, I think Nathan will agree that the competition between us (whilst good humoured) is quite intense and i reckon this alone is worth 1.5 secs a lap as both of us want the fastest lap in testing & qualifying:hahaha:

[Curly]

well if we just try and keep it simple shim... if you took nearly 150 kilos out the car, put a cage in, no engine mods, brand new slicks, a bit more tweaking on your suspension, slightly stiffer springs, and you were racing - id be surprised if you wasnt getting into the 1.17's I'm talking standard class. If were talking modified class there is a lot more expense more bhp lighter,big wings splitters four way suspension it all makes you quicker but costs

[DazBlackCSL]

Can anybody list the gains that you get from turning a CSL road car to say a standard class CSL Cup car to a modified class CSL Cup car in terms of speed gain per change or modification.

To explain better say we take Snetterton where my vest time is circa 1m 21s and CSL Cup run circa 1m 15s. That's 6 seconds improvement or a 3 sec improvement to a standard class Cup car.

If it was my guess I would say firstly driving a cage race car would give me 1/2 sec due to mr letting go that slight restraint you have driving a road car on track. Then slicks with correct geo might be worth 1.5 secs.

Then what do diff, weight savings, exhaust, cat, manifold, cams, cage, suspension, wing, splitter, flat floor, diffuser all add individually

Anybody any thoughts.


In my very limited experience :whistle: its the weight I noticed the most at Snett... in Qualy my best was 1.17.850 and then they slapped me with 40kg of ballast and in the race was seeing 1.19's so immediately effected my times :bigcry:

[_Nathan_]

Our suspension is the same as yours but with stiffer springs, we have different bushes, a plated diff, wider front wheels with wide front tyes, splitter and a wing.

We are 1339kg and 265bhp at the wheels (320 at the crank).

1:17.5

[shimmy]

Our suspension is the same as yours but with stiffer springs, we have different bushes, a plated diff, wider front wheels with wide front tyes, splitter and a wing.

We are 1339kg and 265bhp at the wheels (320 at the crank).

1:17.5

listening to you about your test at Donny with and without wing:whistle: it sounds like a wing/splitter properly set up on some tracks could make a big grip improvement working with slicks especially

[3wheels3]

Shimmy just put that bloody splitter you've already made out of the old ply board bed head rest on your car ffs :thumbs:

[shimmy]

Shimmy just put that bloody splitter you've already made out of the old ply board bed head rest on your car ffs :thumbs:

had it out this morning and wedged under the car again :hahaha:


but i have other plans for 2010............

[Hazy]

in Qualy my best was 1.17.850 and then they slapped me with 40kg of ballast :bigcry:


why was that mate??

[shimmy]

why was that mate??

coz Curly is fat :thumbs:

[DazBlackCSL]

why was that mate??


Std Class regs I was under the limit :whistle: ... need to eat more pies and I would of been OK :hahaha:

[DazBlackCSL]

coz Curly is fat :thumbs:

Harsh ! He just just enjoys his food ;)

[Hazy]

Std Class regs I was under the limit :whistle: ... need to eat more pies and I would of been OK :hahaha:

I'll be ok, I'm fat :thumbs::thumbs::thumbs:

[Thorney]

I dont think you can break it down into consituent parts as you suggest but certainly compared to some CSL Cup cars you are running lower power and slightly higher weight, my car from this season weighed 1280kg (without me) and 390bhp (crank) = 1.14 round Snett.

[shimmy]

so how about

1m 21.0 - my csl
1m 20.0 - race bravery
1m 18.5 - slicks and geo
1m 18.0 - suspension and splitter
1m 17.5 - exhaust mods and some weight saving = standard class
1m 16.5 - weight saving and more power
1m 16.0 - better suspension
1m 15.0 - wings and aero mods

[Thorney]

so how about

1m 21.0 - my csl
1m 20.0 - race bravery
1m 18.5 - slicks and geo
1m 18.0 - suspension and splitter
1m 17.5 - exhaust mods and some weight saving = standard class
1m 16.5 - weight saving and more power
1m 16.0 - better suspension
1m 15.0 - wings and aero mods

lol, dont think you can break it down in such a way.

Certainly in terms of quicker laptimes in order of priority:

1. Less weight
2. Better suspension
3. Slicks
4. Better brakes
5. Cage
6. More power

But these are all mixed up as well.

[Curly]

Std Class regs I was under the limit :whistle: ... need to eat more pies and I would of been OK :hahaha:

Not again Daz :hahaha: you are going to have to put the air con back in mate you know what it was like for me dragging 175klgs of ballast around all season :bigcry: ;)

[DazBlackCSL]

Not again Daz :hahaha: you are going to have to put the air con back in mate you know what it was like for me dragging 175klgs of ballast around all season :bigcry: ;)

LOL !!

Yeah was far to hot in the old girl for me in some of the races, and I might wack the CD player back in so I can listen to barry white :hahaha:

[AlexGTT]

LOL !!

I might wack the CD player back in so I can listen to barry white :hahaha:

That'll smooth your racing lines Dazza and chill you out for the podium. :smt020

[DazBlackCSL]

That'll smooth your racing lines Dazza and chill you out for the podium. :smt020

Exactly my solution please !:whistle::hahaha:

[Bealo]

so how about

1m 21.0 - my csl
1m 20.0 - race bravery
1m 18.5 - slicks and geo
1m 18.0 - suspension and splitter
1m 17.5 - exhaust mods and some weight saving = standard class
1m 16.5 - weight saving and more power
1m 16.0 - better suspension
1m 15.0 - wings and aero mods

I'm pretty sure that with better geo and suspension set up we will both run under 1m.20 at Snett next year.

Weight loss on the car for me is not an option as is neither a cage or realistically more power so that leaves....

Weight loss for the chunky sod behind the wheel and learn how to drive properly.

[shimmy]

Next month! Try next week.:beer:



I agree most of us won't save any real weight in the car unless we loose weight ourselves so power mods should I reckon give up to 30 bhp. You already have the exhaust gains so cams are next BD seeing Bravos car pulling out of Sears last year it was considerably stronger.

Also going by Spa this year good track conditions and a fresh set of Cups make difference.

Aero is what I am looking at to see if there is any gains in mucking about with splitter, wing or diffuser.

Then as you say there is us hobbydrivers behind the wheel. Where do I start!

[Thorney]

Free:

Run more camber

Intermediate:

Wing and front splitter

Expensive:

Slicks and suspension

You'd be amazed how much weight you can get off but dealing with the little things, trust me.

[Bealo]

Free:

Run more camber

Intermediate:

Wing and front splitter

Expensive:

Slicks and suspension

You'd be amazed how much weight you can get off but dealing with the little things, trust me.

I would be interested to learn where the car can lose weight and still be a good quiet road car aswell as a track car.

[DazBlackCSL]

I would be interested to learn where the car can lose weight and still be a good quiet road car aswell as a track car.

Think JT is right, guess its a balance really the ideal best road quiet / track car is the Std car outa the box, if you want more track day focused weapon then all the things listed BUT obviously as you step more towards the track day side the less road comfy it'll be so its probably your own choice as to HOW focused you want it in relation to compromise :whistle:

And get out to the ring ... lots of interesting bar people :whistle::smt055

[AlexGTT]

And get out to the ring ... lots of interesting bar people :whistle::smt055

:smt064 :hahaha:

MMMMmmmmmmmmm, Balbina!:drool: :heart::whistle:

[DazBlackCSL]

:smt064 :hahaha:

MMMMmmmmmmmmm, Balbina!:drool: :heart::whistle:


Hmmm yes cant say I noticed :whistle:

[AlexGTT]

Hmmm yes cant say I noticed :whistle:

..............Yeah, me neither............:hahaha:

[DazBlackCSL]

We need to let Jochen know were out there too .. will drop him a text ..be good to get some shots .. as I missed out last time :whistle:

and some bar shots this time Jochen please :whistle:

[AlexGTT]

Good idea Daz. I forgot you were crying in your hotel room on that day. :(

Still, one of the best Ring weekends ever.:thumbs:

[Thorney]

[quote=Bealo;32150]I would be interested to learn where the car can lose weight and still be a good quiet road car aswell as a track car.[/quot

M3?

CF roof, perspex rear screen will save nearly 28 kg on their own.

Lightweight wheels wont affect noise at all.

Recaro seats will save another 20kg even over the CSL seats, no affect on noise.

[_Nathan_]

Perspex rear screen would annoy for a road car, no heating element, no radio aerial and no remote locking aerial (last one from memory).

[Bealo]

[quote=Bealo;32150]I would be interested to learn where the car can lose weight and still be a good quiet road car aswell as a track car.[/quot

M3?

CF roof, perspex rear screen will save nearly 28 kg on their own.

Lightweight wheels wont affect noise at all.

Recaro seats will save another 20kg even over the CSL seats, no affect on noise.

I would defo go for the seats and maybe the wheels but the rear window and roof are a bit to extreme for me...

[glendog74]

[quote=Thorney;32169]

I would defo go for the seats and maybe the wheels but the rear window and roof are a bit to extreme for me...

Hasn't your CSL already got a CF roof mate? :clown: :hahaha:

[glendog74]

We need to let Jochen know were out there too .. will drop him a text ..be good to get some shots .. as I missed out last time :whistle:


Shots of what Dazza? Track or 'elsewhere'... :smt047

Good idea Daz. I forgot you were crying in your hotel room on that day. :(

Still, one of the best Ring weekends ever.:thumbs:

:smt089 :smt089 :smt089 :smt045

[DazBlackCSL]

[quote=Bealo;32173]

Hasn't your CSL already got a CF roof mate? :clown: :hahaha:

lol :hahaha:

[DazBlackCSL]

Shots of what Dazza? Track or 'elsewhere'... :smt047



:smt089 :smt089 :smt089 :smt045


ELSEWHERE please .. balbina solutions :whistle:

Need to get her CSL CUP'd up so its right for this section !

[shimmy]

[quote=Bealo;32173]

Hasn't your CSL already got a CF roof mate? :clown: :hahaha:

he stil thinks hes got a R5 Turbo :bigcry:

[_Nathan_]

Also CSL already has a thinner rear screen. If anyone wants to modify their normal M3 to have one I've got a thinner one from my CSL somewhere.

[AlexGTT]

[quote=glendog74;32187]

he stil thinks hes got a R5 Turbo :bigcry:

Either that or he's driving a 318i CSL lookalike with a pholiotech stick on carbon roof!! :smt107 :hahaha:

And there's nothing wrong with still owning an R5 Turbo............................................. ..........................that many hours of therapy won't solve.:whistle:

[shimmy]

Either that or he's driving a 318i CSL lookalike with a pholiotech stick on carbon roof!! :smt107 :hahaha:

.

hope not coz that makes me even slower than i thought :bigcry:

[El_Gordo]

Out of curiosity what will a completely standard CSL do round Snett?

[shimmy]

Manny

My best is 1m 21.7s in my CSL

That was standard car with CUps except for AP brakes so effectively standard.

That was before any other mods including suspension changes

[Hazy]

Manny

My best is 1m 21.7s in my CSL

That was standard car with CUps except for AP brakes so effectively standard.

That was before any other mods including suspension changes

ap'S WILL MAKE AT LEAST 1 SEC PER LAP imo

[shimmy]

ap'S WILL MAKE AT LEAST 1 SEC PER LAP imo

no way

dont you hear what Fuchs is saying! Stock brakes are just as good a stopper as APs (cant beleive i wrote that) but they just handle the heat best. The tyres are the limit .............




NO NO NO we must not go down there:birdman:

[Bealo]

[quote=shimmy;32193]

Either that or he's driving a 318i CSL lookalike with a pholiotech stick on carbon roof!! :smt107 :hahaha:

And there's nothing wrong with still owning an R5 Turbo............................................. ..........................that many hours of therapy won't solve.:whistle:

Best you get booked into see the Therapist then :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha:

[Bealo]

Manny

My best is 1m 21.7s in my CSL

That was standard car with CUps except for AP brakes so effectively standard.

That was before any other mods including suspension changes

Yeah Shimmy's slower now with the Intrax and more camber :gayfight:

[AlexGTT]

[quote=AlexGTT;32216]

Best you get booked into see the Therapist then :hahaha: :hahaha: :hahaha:

I've got an account with them!! :119: